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  #1  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:08 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Default My IR thoughts so far - Tone Dexter/Aura)

I have a D-28 (2017) that I love and it has a Fishman Matrix Infinity pickup. I believe this is best setup right now for the way that I play and I am very happy with the sound of the guitar and do not feel that the pickup impacts the unplugged tone in a negative way.

For the past two weeks I have been experimenting with a Tone Dexter and Aura Spectrum DI.

I have gotten excellent results from the Aura, it sounds like a mic and the blend control and compressor are excellent for tweaking the sound live. I play noisy venues and have not had an issue with feedback and if I do there is the anti feedback button which will remove it automatically.

I have also tried the Tone Dexter and gotten excellent results but I did feel there was some extra boominess that caused feedback (although I have only used it out a couple of times and still need to experiment more).

For a test I decided to record my settings into Logic and share them here (the settings are not FLAT but rather adjusted to what I think would sound good live):

https://soundcloud.com/aaronshortuk/...ter-comparison (Aura and then Tone Dexter)

https://soundcloud.com/aaronshortuk/dexterbird (Tone Dexter Only)

I think both pedals sound great (much better than the pickup alone, although the Matrix is very good for an under saddle).

I can hear that the Tone Dexter has a lot more bass in the recording and I have to say that I am missing that when I play live with the Aura. It does mean that there is never an issue with feedback but it makes the guitar sound thin.

It could be that I need to use a different image but of course this is a draw back with the Aura (you have to spend time auditioning every image!).

I am hoping that I can EQ enough of the bass out that feedback will not be an issue and I can use the Tone Dexter full time since I enjoy using a map of my ACTUAL guitar. It may also help if I could blend the original pickup in with the map a little so add some definition and I hear a lot of the pros are using it this way (with a blend pedal or similar) when they play live.

My conclusion for now is that we are clearly spoiled by technology and both pedals are a great addition to a piezo pickup. I'm looking forward to seeing what NAMM brings!
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:23 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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I'm preferring the ToneDexter sample, but my perception may be off because that sample is somewhat louder than the Aura sample. You could try normalizing the samples so that they have the same peak level. Albeit, if one sample is more compressed, it will still sound louder even if the peak levels are the same.

With respect to feedback, I'm having no problem with the Barbera Soloist/ToneDexter combo on a noisy stage. (The Soloist doesn't compromise the guitar's acoustic tone, either.) Last night I tried a Sololist/iRig Acoustic Stage mic in the same environment and it was a feedback disaster. I could barely blend in any amount of mic signal without a problem. Albeit, the Soloist/iRig mic combo sounds very good at a moderate amplification level in my basement.
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2018, 10:56 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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I greatly prefer the Tonedexter sample to the Aura. I currently own the Tonedexter (still early stages) and used a Matrix/Spectrum Aura DI set up for years. What I always struggled with when using the Aura was the fairly hi-fi and somewhat thin tone that I could never dial out. It was just too processed for me. I also felt a bit of latency. It felt like an effect and not a part of my guitar if that makes sense.

Conversely, the Tonedexter feels like my guitar. It also has a much fuller tone to it that I quite like. I find with the Tonedexter, I spend more time playing and less time tweaking. I will admit that when I switch from my Amulet to the Wavemap, the WM does seem to be a bit less direct and could be an issue live, but I am sure I can work around this.
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:22 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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there is eq and a notch filter on the tonedexter.
Perhaps live you could notch out that offending
tone.
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  #5  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:24 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Yes I feel the Aura has a lot of problematic frequencies removed as well as the blend but this is why it sounds thinner. I will have to look at home I can shake the Tone Dexter more with the onboard and my outboard EQ.
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2018, 11:52 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Here is one more for you: Tone Dexter INTO my Kemper, I find the tone so inspiring. I'm a total IR convert!

https://soundcloud.com/aaronshortuk/kemper-dexter
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  #7  
Old 01-05-2018, 12:48 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
Here is one more for you: Tone Dexter INTO my Kemper, I find the tone so inspiring. I'm a total IR convert!

https://soundcloud.com/aaronshortuk/kemper-dexter
Question, I could be wrong but don't you own a guitar with the K&K pure mini installed as well? I am wondering if you noticed a difference between the K&K and Matrix UST when using the tonedexter? Obviously I understand that the K&K will still pick up percussion hits on the body but just curious. I am currently considering a K&K or Fishman Matrix for my Taylor to pair with the Tonedexter. I figure that the TD is so natural that I don't really need a super high end pickup and would like one of these two.
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  #8  
Old 01-05-2018, 12:48 PM
gfsark gfsark is offline
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To my ears, the Tonedexter sounds richer than the Aura, so I would prefer it, too. It doesn’t sound boomy to me.
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  #9  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:12 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Question, I could be wrong but don't you own a guitar with the K&K pure mini installed as well? I am wondering if you noticed a difference between the K&K and Matrix UST when using the tonedexter? Obviously I understand that the K&K will still pick up percussion hits on the body but just curious. I am currently considering a K&K or Fishman Matrix for my Taylor to pair with the Tonedexter. I figure that the TD is so natural that I don't really need a super high end pickup and would like one of these two.
I have a Blue Ridge with K&K for testing. I’m probably going to sell it. The tone of the guitar isn’t for me and although I use body hits at times I find it’s a hassle regarding feedback. Also for the kind of music I Play I prefer a more scooped ‘jangly! Tone to the K&K thick woody tone. Also it’s nice that in an emergency I can plug he guitar in direct if I don’t have the pedal with me.
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:18 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
I have a Blue Ridge with K&K for testing. I’m probably going to sell it. The tone of the guitar isn’t for me and although I use body hits at times I find it’s a hassle regarding feedback. Also for the kind of music I Play I prefer a more scooped ‘jangly! Tone to the K&K thick woody tone. Also it’s nice that in an emergency I can plug he guitar in direct if I don’t have the pedal with me.
Thanks. I feel as though I would probably like the Matrix more. Although the Tonedexter most likely sounds the same for both, I do remember James May commenting on how the Matrix will still have more of a direct tone due to the string contact and the K&K will be a bit more natural in its feel. I have come to really like the immediate attack and I bet a UST would make my Taylor sound a bit more full.
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  #11  
Old 01-05-2018, 01:24 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Go for the Matrix Infinity its excellent.
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  #12  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:19 PM
Tommy_G Tommy_G is offline
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The Aura has more of a plasticky piezo component to the tone... Maybe because of some amount of blend dialled in on the pedal... I would like to hear it as 100 percent mic sample. Right now it sounds like 60 percent of a live miked tone... 40 percent piezo.

I find my Aura samples to have a thin scooped tone with hard sounding highs...which is how I hear your tone in this. I feel no need to add it in my signal chain for gigs anymore.


The Tonedexter sounds 90 percent like a live acoustic sound. It has more forward mid range tones likely in that 500 hz range. Makes it bark a bit more. But a bit more than necessary. Might be your eqing decisions. The critique is that it lacks a bit of open airiness to it.

I am listening from a cell phone so I might be totally off the mark.

Nice playing... Great feel!

Last edited by Tommy_G; 01-05-2018 at 02:38 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2018, 02:52 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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You are exactly right! 60% image but I have to say it does 'just work' and sound very good live. I'm very happy with it.

I would like to replace it with the Tone Dexter I just need to work out if it's possible with mic placement or EQ.

For quick and easy recording it absolutely rocks though!
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:07 PM
Tommy_G Tommy_G is offline
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Haha... Lets call it an experienced guess!

The most amazing thing I have discovered with my fishman SRT2 Piezo equipped Yamaha LL16 is this:

Martin Retro Strings.

The guitar now has much less volume than anything bronze... Likely why they are said to bring out more of the wood tone of the guitar... Its because there is less string...

The problem with piezos is they distort at higher amplitudes which is the attack component.. Hence the plasticky tone.

The Martin Retros seem to minimize the plasticky tone and shifted the frequency response ito a range more compatible with my Fishman Minieq.

As I discussed on a thread I started a few days ago.. The retros are not perfect..but a big improvement to my guitar which happens to sound alot like yours. I think Rotosound LS200.. Also Monel might be an even better fit because they are likely to be a bit more mellow and purer sounding without the Martin "brushiness." I dont mind the brushiness but it is an unneccessary part of an acoustic guitar tone.

But again.. I believe as a matter of technical judgement that the best thing to improve piezo quality is to quiet the guitar down and find strings that make the wood resonate.
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  #15  
Old 01-05-2018, 03:20 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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Does your LL16 have the stock Yamaha passive piezo? I feel the Matrix is very good but it’s he plastic artifacts that bother me. I don’t mind if the Aura doesn’t remove all of it as a little gives definition when playing live. I’ve tried so many pickups and the Aura (with Matrix) for me is the most plug and play and best sounding so far.

Regarding strings, I use Martin SP because I like the ‘bite’ and ‘grit’ that they have though I realize they may not be the best pairing for the pickup.
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aura, fishman matrix infinity, tone dexter

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