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Old 05-17-2013, 07:58 AM
Codyyy Codyyy is offline
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Hello all!

I have been browsing these forums for the past few days, and have found them to be extremely helpful thus far. I’m glad to be a part of the community.

Let me get straight to it: So my wife is getting me some guitar lessons for my birthday present. I’ve been playing for about 2.5 years already (self-taught) and I play in my church band; so I have some experience. I am only getting to take 4 lessons (financial restrictions), and I want to make the most of them. However it will be up to me tell the instructor where I’m at and where I want to go. Therefore I come to you guys for counsel and guidance.

My reasoning has taken this route: I plan to have all 5 patterns of the major scale burned into my memory by the time I start these lessons – this way I won’t have to waste that valuable lesson time memorizing scale patterns. This will let me take that to my instructor and he can teach me how to use them. I’m realizing that memorizing scale patterns is not necessarily indicative of playing good solos. When do try to improvise a solo I end up running up and down the scale and it sounds just like it – monotonous and dull. I seem to be in a rut.

But what I want feedback from you guys on is what would be a good direction to go to reach my end goal? Namely, I want to be able to write my own songs, and invent my own melodies. I would also like to be able to jam with friends. For example, let’s say my friend just starts playing some chord progression in the key of ‘G’, I want to know how to add some riffs and solos that go with it. I want to know how to play, and what makes for some catchy melodies.

My practice time on guitar seems to be growing increasingly more random and without direction. I play a lot, but I feel like I'm not working toward my goal effectively. I need help!

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:34 AM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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...But what I want feedback from you guys on is what would be a good direction to go to reach my end goal?
Hi Codyyy...

Sounds like you'll have time for a good introduction to…whatever style you choose to learn or reinforce. If the teach is agreeable, I might even suggest every other week for the four lessons to give things a bit-o-time to settle in.

I think you should choose a single focus, and then plan on recording or shooting pics/video with your phone/camera and perfecting it after the lessons end.

Could be fingerstyle, could be jazz chords, could be chord structure and progressions, could be how to play light lead over chords.

Hope you have a great experience…what a nice gift from your wife.


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Old 05-17-2013, 08:51 AM
Codyyy Codyyy is offline
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I think learning to play lead over a chord progression will be most helpful. Throughout the day I will catch myself humming some really catchy melody, then I get home and try to flesh it out on guitar, and I can never quite get it. I'm having a hard time getting what's in my head to my hands - if that makes any sense. I know what it should sound like, I just can't make it sound like that.

It's really frustrating to get all these good tunes going in my head, and then not be able to make anything out of it, ya know? It's like an itch that I can't scratch.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:04 AM
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I think learning to play lead over a chord progression will be most helpful. Throughout the day I will catch myself humming some really catchy melody, then I get home and try to flesh it out on guitar, and I can never quite get it. I'm having a hard time getting what's in my head to my hands - if that makes any sense. I know what it should sound like, I just can't make it sound like that.

It's really frustrating to get all these good tunes going in my head, and then not be able to make anything out of it, ya know? It's like an itch that I can't scratch.
Hi Codyyy....

I forgot to say Hello and Welcome to the Forum! Glad you joined, and pray lessons will help at least start your scratching of the itch.

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Old 05-17-2013, 11:01 AM
JanVigne JanVigne is offline
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"I play a lot, but I feel like I'm not working toward my goal effectively. I need help!"


What specifically is your goal? If you cannot state in a few clear, concise words what you want to achieve, no instructor can read your mind. When I sold high end audio most clients would say they wanted a speaker with "tight bass, clear mids and clean highs". We all do. To actually have such a system requires; first, a reasonable amount of monetary investment and, second, there must be supporting systems which allow the presentation as described. Acquiring such support systems typically requires a deeper understanding of music and audio than can be achieved in one visit to the audio shop. So you need to boil down to a tangible request those things you wish the instructor would cover in your limited time.

I don't believe anyone can provide sufficient information in four lessons to allow a full understanding of any one style of play. If soloing is your goal, then, yes, knowing your scales and positions is crucial to your success and you would be wasting everyone's time if you simply showed up with the intent you would emerge as a complete player in your alloted time. If playing what is in your head is your goal, then possibly ear training is what you should seek. Ultimately, the two will go together as you begin to play solos as you hear them in your head.

But look at where you are now in your playing and where you reasonably think you want to be after four lessons to come up with a realistic goal you can state to the instructor. "I want to play better", is not what you should be thinking. If you don't know what to say is your goal, then do your homework before you arrive at the first lesson. Read about how to turn scales into music and have this under your fingers as much as possible for the instructor to use as a gauge of your present position as a player and just where you can go in your short time together. This really may come down to not much more than finding a good book which suits your needs and which you can work with after the lessons are officially finished.

Most importantly, get yourself back into a regular routine of playing and practicing before you head off for the first lesson.

Last edited by JanVigne; 05-17-2013 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:46 AM
Codyyy Codyyy is offline
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Originally Posted by JanVigne View Post
"I play a lot, but I feel like I'm not working toward my goal effectively. I need help!"


What specifically is your goal? If you cannot state in a few clear, concise words what you want to achieve, no instructor can read your mind. When I sold high end audio most clients would say they wanted a speaker with "tight bass, clear mids and clean highs". We all do. To actually have such a system requires; first, a reasonable amount of monetary investment and, second, there must be supporting systems which allow the presentation as described. Acquiring such support systems typically requires a deeper understanding of music and audio than can be achieved in one visit to the audio shop. So you need to boil down to a tangible request those things you wish the instructor would cover in your limited time.

I don't believe anyone can provide sufficient information in four lessons to allow a full understanding of any one style of play. If soloing is your goal, then, yes, knowing your scales and positions is crucial to your success and you would be wasting everyone's time if you simply showed up with the intent you would emerge as a complete player in your alloted time. If playing what is in your head is your goal, then possibly ear training is what you should seek. Ultimately, the two will go together as you begin to play solos as you hear them in your head.

But look at where you are now in your playing and where you reasonably think you want to be after four lessons to come up with a realistic goal you can state to the instructor. "I want to play better", is not what you should be thinking. If you don't know what to say is your goal, then do your homework before you arrive at the first lesson. Read about how to turn scales into music and have this under your fingers as much as possible for the instructor to use as a gauge of your present position as a player and just where you can go in your short time together. This really may come down to not much more than finding a good book which suits your needs and which you can work with after the lessons are officially finished.

Most importantly, get yourself back into a regular routine of playing and practicing before you head off for the first lesson.
Good advice. Thanks.

Specifically, I want to know how to improvise/solo over chord progressions. Which scale should be used over 'X' chord progression?
I'm really into song writing, and I have lots of songs written, but I have no melody for them.

I have taken into account that 4 lessons is hardly enough time for anything. So I was mostly hoping my instructor could point me in the right direction, and give me a practice routine to follow. Kind of like, "This is the way, walk ye it." I have so many music theory books and materials that I often get overwhelmed with what to tackle first.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:07 PM
BluesBelly BluesBelly is offline
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Originally Posted by Codyyy View Post
Good advice. Thanks.

Specifically, I want to know how to improvise/solo over chord progressions. Which scale should be used over 'X' chord progression?
I'm really into song writing, and I have lots of songs written, but I have no melody for them.

I have taken into account that 4 lessons is hardly enough time for anything. So I was mostly hoping my instructor could point me in the right direction, and give me a practice routine to follow. Kind of like, "This is the way, walk ye it." I have so many music theory books and materials that I often get overwhelmed with what to tackle first.
Bingo Codyyy,
You have defined your objective. Tell it to the instructor like you've told it to us.

When I look back at my personal musical growth there was a huge leap when I learned to play a song with lead fills, that is, play the chords and sing the words but substitute lead fills for some of the chording. In order to pull this off you must know quite a few four beat (assuming 4/4 time) lead licks which can be borrowed or original. Additionally, once you get to know lead licks you can string a bunch together and play a 12 (or more) bar lead solo. Knowing which lick to play over which chord can be difficult for some so that could be a source of study with your instructor.

Listen to your favorite musicians as often as possible and soon you will hear a lick and your mind will picture where on the fretboard it was played and what notes were used. You will be able to grab your guitar, duplicate that lick, and add it to your arsenal.

It all takes practice.

Good luck and post your results.

Blues

Last edited by BluesBelly; 05-17-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:07 PM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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But what I want feedback from you guys on is what would be a good direction to go to reach my end goal? Namely, I want to be able to write my own songs, and invent my own melodies.
For that goal, learn to play other people's songs: anything you like, and as many as you can.
It's about building a vocabulary.
Steal melodic fragments and cool chord changes- anything that catches your ear.
But mainly it's about absorbing the common kinds of changes and song structures.
To actually begin writing your own songs, you need ideas - something that can act as the "seed": something for the song to be about. The best thing to start from is a phrase of some kind - verbal or melodic. You then let it develop from there.
Make sure you do plenty of idle noodling when practising, because that's when good ideas can occur.
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Originally Posted by Codyyy View Post
I would also like to be able to jam with friends. For example, let’s say my friend just starts playing some chord progression in the key of ‘G’, I want to know how to add some riffs and solos that go with it. I want to know how to play, and what makes for some catchy melodies.
Learn chord shapes, more than scale patterns. The chord sequence gives you a structure to follow, a series of shapes on the fretboard which you should be able to recognise as parts of a scale pattern. But you don't actually need to see a scale pattern; you can just work from the chord shapes, adding notes from the other chords.
For melodic playing, keep it simple, use short phrases based on chord tones, and use repetition when you can.
Try humming phrases before you play, or imagining a melodic phrase in your head.
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My practice time on guitar seems to be growing increasingly more random and without direction. I play a lot, but I feel like I'm not working toward my goal effectively. I need help!
Start focussing on learning songs. Don't just learn chords, or guitar parts: learn to play the vocal melodies. Once you know the chords, start trying to play along with the vocal, making melodic responses to it.

Don't worry about learning a whole load of stuff specially for your first lesson (at least not scale patterns, if you don't understand their use). Your teacher may take you on a whole different path.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:51 PM
bwstl01 bwstl01 is offline
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From a different perspective, start writing poems. Crafting the language is a skill you will need in order to write your own songs.

Keep them simple, don't try to hit the audience on the head, just tap 'em on the shoulder.

Welcome to the forum!
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:17 PM
Codyyy Codyyy is offline
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Thanks for the feedback all. This is really helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
Learn chord shapes, more than scale patterns. The chord sequence gives you a structure to follow, a series of shapes on the fretboard which you should be able to recognise as parts of a scale pattern. But you don't actually need to see a scale pattern; you can just work from the chord shapes, adding notes from the other chords.
^This^ has given me an epiphany. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by bwstl01 View Post
From a different perspective, start writing poems. Crafting the language is a skill you will need in order to write your own songs.

Keep them simple, don't try to hit the audience on the head, just tap 'em on the shoulder.

Welcome to the forum!
I write a lot (Lit. major here), and I am slowly learning the differences between writing poetry and writing songs. I feel pretty unrestricted when just writing. But when I try and put a melody or progression to lyrics I hit walls. I seem to be better at finding a catchy chord progression, then writing from that. For me the music dictates the lyrics - for right now anyways.
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Old 05-17-2013, 01:56 PM
mcasey329 mcasey329 is offline
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A different approach could be to fine tune something you are already are doing.

Given that you are self taught, been playing for 2+ years and the limit of 4 lessons it may be far more effective to figure out for yourself what problem areas you have and have the instructor work on those with you.

You may have some habits built into your self taught playing that inhibit growth that a good instructor will point out and fix. A good instructor can help you refine and apply to other areas of your playing and the trickel down effect of doing some old in a new and more refined way can have profound impacts on other areas of your playing.

A good instructor should be able to see them if you are not aware of them yourself and his skill at seeing and offering up corrections can help with your own self awareness far more than learning a new lick or progression.

Just something else to think about.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:09 PM
Codyyy Codyyy is offline
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Much appreciated advice. Thanks everyone. This has been more than helpful.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:12 PM
JanVigne JanVigne is offline
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"I have so many music theory books and materials that I often get overwhelmed with what to tackle first."




Ahhhh, the "this didn't work the way I planned, maybe I'll try this" approach to self taught guitar. Alot of us have the same problem so I'm not criticising, I'm empathizing.

I had an accident recently which tore up my left arm and hand so I had to stop playing for several months. Now I'm back and looking at all the materials I have copied and stuck away for future reference over the last few years. Most of it doesn't register as to why I copied it. My technique is horrible considering where I had been before the accident. So I have to go through all of the books I've used over the years to come up with a workable plan to move myself back up the foodchain. In many ways I am in a position similar to your own. Too much material and too little time. That I could once do this with relative ease only makes matters worse.


If I had to give you some advice for how to approach your lessons, I would say go through all of your materials first and cull out the stuff that isn't helpful right now. If you don't see something that can make you a better player in the next few months, that material needs to go back in the closet. Then zero in one one or two books which you think will move your playing forward and take these to the lessons.

Have a few examples of material from the book ready to play and then express your goals for the lessons in terms of how to incorporate the material you have into the lessons with a focus on how the instructor can get you through some of the rougher spots in the material. Make things as specific as possible so the instructor has no need to wander off into other areas.

Then stick to one or two lesson plans alone. No more that that or you'll be right back where you are now, too much information and not enough assimilation. With only four lessons to work with, you need to be focussed and remain focussed after the lessons are completed. No more bouncing from one book to another. Fixate your practice sessions on making progress through just one or two complementary books. Every time you pick up your guitar to practice, you should already have a plan for what you will accomplish in that practice session and then stay at it until you've accomplished that specific goal. Possibly the best thing an instructor can give you in only four lessons is some structure to how you practice to meet a goal.

I recently gave a newbie the advice to only work one note at a time. When we get hung up on not playing what we hear in our head or what is on the page, it is typically only one note which does us in. It may be one note in a series of a dozen notes but, if you approach the problem one note at a time, then it is much easier to overcome a difficulty with that one note than with a string of two dozen notes. Go as slowly as needed to make progress and work one note at a time. Use a metronome and make the metronome responsible for keeping time, not you. By taking the work of timing off your shoulders and putting it onto the metronome you can stop being worried about timing and speed. The metronome will tell you when you're playing has wandered off time. Until the metronome says it's happy, keep working with just one note. Once you have that one note down to the satisfaction of the metronome, take on the next note. But don't wander around. One lesson plan and follow that until you've completed it.
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