The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-14-2013, 12:40 PM
Jackknifegypsy Jackknifegypsy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 526
Default Bad finger habit in right hand..

..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-14-2013, 01:19 PM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 42,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.
Really Jack?

Michael Chapdelaine - CLiCK

Tommy E - CLiCK

Doug Young - CLiCK

Al Petteway - CLiCK

Never heard that, and don't agree with it.


__________________

Baby #1.1
Baby #1.2
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Baby #05

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them…
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-14-2013, 01:26 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
i suggest you buy or download if there is out there the "effortless guitar" video from William Kanengiser member of Los Angeles Guitar Quartet
He explains very well how the fingers must move and how to train them
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-14-2013, 01:26 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 10,831
Default

What a crock! Who told you that? As LJ pointed out, it ain't so...

Hey, Jack? Want to buy a bridge? I've got one for sale cheap!!!

(seriously... don't believe everything you read/hear/see...)
__________________
"He's one of those who knows that life is just a leap of faith.
Spread your arms and hold your breath,
always trust your cape..."

"The Cape" (Guy Clark/Jim Janowsky/Susanna Clark)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-14-2013, 01:32 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

ok its on youtube on 10 parts
heres what you need to know at part 2 at 2:20 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldChZoSdvak
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:23 PM
Guest 33123
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
I don't know who told you that but I think they are full of it. All three on my joints move when I fingerpick and I have no problems at all.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:34 PM
Jackknifegypsy Jackknifegypsy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 526
Default Paikon

thx for the referral to the video on Youtube.

Looks like there's no other way to break the habit but conscious effort.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-14-2013, 02:38 PM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
thx for the referral to the video on Youtube.

Looks like there's no other way to break the habit but conscious effort.
you are welcome
watch all ten parts of effortless guitar and this also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Edsc4AujU
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-15-2013, 05:25 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 14,146
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
..have recently learned that the fingers must move at the joint where the fingers meet the hand, not where I've been moving from, at the next joint on fingers or at both joints.

Is there a cure for this deeply ingrained habit? Other than persevering with conscious effort to break it (gonna slow me down significantly).

There must be some great advantage to it but I can't determine what it is.
yes, this is correct. not solely from the knuckle, but primarily.

here is a page from 'the art of classical guitar playing' by charles duncan. the second paragraph is relevant:




Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
i watched this video, and it definitely looked to me like he was primarily moving from the knuckle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackknifegypsy View Post
thx for the referral to the video on Youtube.

Looks like there's no other way to break the habit but conscious effort.
if you watch this video of alice artzt, around the 5:15 mark she talks a little about the hand motion. it's a very natural movement similar to picking up a stick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW1pDXnSGxI


Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikon View Post
you are welcome
watch all ten parts of effortless guitar and this also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Edsc4AujU
i've bookmarked that for watching later.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:23 AM
dhalbert dhalbert is offline
Dan - Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Eastern MA
Posts: 1,668
Default like piano technique?

This movement from the first knuckle reminds of the normal way one is taught to play the piano. The starting and stopping locations may be different, but it seems very natural to me (after many years of piano playing). Maybe a little cross-training on the piano would help.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:32 AM
Bern's Avatar
Bern Bern is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 10,748
Default

Any player who can play and project music in a way to move listeners, his technique, as efficient or inefficient it may be, becomes irrelevant.
__________________
There are still so many beautiful things to be said in C major...
Sergei Prokofiev
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-15-2013, 06:42 AM
Paikon Paikon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Thessaloniki Greece
Posts: 1,814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bern View Post
Any player who can play and project music in a way to move listeners, his technique, as efficient or inefficient it may be, becomes irrelevant.
true ,there is a guy who plays with his feet cos he has no hands and he moves listeners BUT when the issue is tone production, fast runs, accuracy then how the fingers move is very important.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-15-2013, 07:03 AM
mc1 mc1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: nova scotia
Posts: 14,146
Default

efficiency and ergonomics are also important for playing long term without injury. i can't see why a natural ergonomic movement isn't to be preferred.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:25 AM
ljguitar's Avatar
ljguitar ljguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: wyoming
Posts: 42,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mc1 View Post
efficiency and ergonomics are also important for playing long term without injury. i can't see why a natural ergonomic movement isn't to be preferred.
Hi all...

I think I confused Jack's original post to mean the finger was being flexed at the first knuckle, and was eliminating the motion of the finger from the middle joint toward the palm.

By all methods discussed in this post the tip of the finger is still drawn toward the palm, and the emphasis on the knuckle (versus finger joint) is a bit mute as one cannot draw the finger tip over a string without that knuckle being involved (unless you are clawing the strings).

I'd say the videos I posted all four of the players had fairly ergonomic approaches, and fit the descriptions listed in mc1's diagrams...

As a fingerstyle teacher, I'm left wondering what technique Jackknifegypsy is listing as 'wrong'. I guess I'd love to see an example of it.

__________________

Baby #1.1
Baby #1.2
Baby #02
Baby #03
Baby #04
Baby #05

Larry's songs...

…Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them…
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-15-2013, 09:39 AM
dhalbert dhalbert is offline
Dan - Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Eastern MA
Posts: 1,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
I think I confused Jack's original post to mean the finger was being flexed at the first knuckle, and was eliminating the motion of the finger from the middle joint toward the palm.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knuckle:
The knuckles at the base of the fingers may be referred to as the 1st or major knuckles while the knuckles at the midfinger are known as the 2nd and 3rd, or minor, knuckles.
I am not even sure we are all talking about the same thing when we say "knuckle" vs. "finger joint". When I said "first knuckle", I meant the joint where the finger meets the back of the hand. In the picture below, that's the "MCP" joint. Which do you mean when you say knuckle and middle joint?

Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY and Write

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=