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  #16  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:33 AM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
My Plasma suffered image retention, being retired I leave my set on while working around the house. If you leave a Plasma or OLED on the same channel for extended periods ("planted"), Fox, CNN, MSNBC, ESPN, etc., their logos can "burn in" leaving a ghost image.



We're talking many hours over time, but it's a known problem and "image retention" is not covered by warranty. Plasmas were around look enough there are a lot of articles about burn-in, and now some early OLED adapters have reported the same. My Best Buy salesperson showed me floor sample OLEDs with image retention, that they periodically removed/replaced so as not to hurt sales, but again this only applies to hours a day on a favorite channel over time, not a problem for most folks but something to be aware of.



The Z9D's start at 65", so not on your radar. Aside from 4K, look for HDR which many base models don't have. HDR is High Dynamic Range which is a much broader and vivid color palatte/contrast, you can see the difference side by side.



FYI - some Best Buy prices for 55" 4K HDR televisions:



Sony A1E - OLED, $2800

Sony 930E - $1700, LED, their best 55" LED, Z9Ds start at 65"

LG E7P - $3000, their best 55" OLED



Again, the less expensive versions of the above do not have HDR, do an A/B and you'll see the difference. Hope this helps, I did a LOT of research on TVs, receivers, and 4K blu ray players before I bit the bullet........


I bought a Samsung MU6100 58” (their new budget line) to replace my year and half old Vizio M55 that died on me. The Vizio was 4K but not HDR, and the difference is huge. The only disappointing thing about the Samsung is the super cheap remote, I mean they really cheap out on that. It is also not a FALD display with kinda disappointed me but the picture quality is quite good with good blacks. Not bad for a $600 tv at Costco.

I was looking at OLED too but I also read about burn-in, and that a deal breaker for me because I play video games.
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:45 AM
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Currently pondering an OLED upgrade myself. After reading this article, I'm reassured that the reported burn-in won't be a problem for our TV watching patterns.

AFAIK, all OLED panels are made by LG, regardless of the brand they are sold under.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
My Plasma suffered image retention, being retired I leave my set on while working around the house. If you leave a Plasma or OLED on the same channel for extended periods ("planted"), Fox, CNN, MSNBC, ESPN, etc., their logos can "burn in" leaving a ghost image.

We're talking many hours over time, but it's a known problem and "image retention" is not covered by warranty. Plasmas were around look enough there are a lot of articles about burn-in, and now some early OLED adapters have reported the same. My Best Buy salesperson showed me floor sample OLEDs with image retention, that they periodically removed/replaced so as not to hurt sales, but again this only applies to hours a day on a favorite channel over time, not a problem for most folks but something to be aware of.

The Z9D's start at 65", so not on your radar. Aside from 4K, look for HDR which many base models don't have. HDR is High Dynamic Range which is a much broader and vivid color palatte/contrast, you can see the difference side by side.

FYI - some Best Buy prices for 55" 4K HDR televisions:

Sony A1E - OLED, $2800
Sony 930E - $1700, LED, their best 55" LED, Z9Ds start at 65"
LG E7P - $3000, their best 55" OLED

Again, the less expensive versions of the above do not have HDR, do an A/B and you'll see the difference. Hope this helps, I did a LOT of research on TVs, receivers, and 4K blu ray players before I bit the bullet........
All your posts have been excellent and informative in this thread.

However, I will point out that all LG OLED's are basically the same TV with some minor aesthetic improvements and different sound/speaker systems. As far as video goes, the LG B7 is as good as the LG E7 for the most part although they might use a different SOC but I can't remember. Even if they do, the difference is negligible. The B7, 55 inch is frequently on sale for less than $1500 nowadays.

Also, one should look for Dolby Vision as well as HDR in a TV now. On Netflix at least, the Dolby Vision material looks better than the HDR material.
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  #19  
Old 11-18-2017, 11:43 AM
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And, as we speak, from a deal site:

Deep Discount.com has Planet Earth II (4k UHD Blu-ray) for $34.99 - 15% Off w/ promo code GOBBLE = $29.74. Shipping is free.
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2017, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
All your posts have been excellent and informative in this thread.

However, I will point out that all LG OLED's are basically the same TV with some minor aesthetic improvements and different sound/speaker systems. As far as video goes, the LG B7 is as good as the LG E7 for the most part although they might use a different SOC but I can't remember. Even if they do, the difference is negligible. The B7, 55 inch is frequently on sale for less than $1500 nowadays.

Also, one should look for Dolby Vision as well as HDR in a TV now. On Netflix at least, the Dolby Vision material looks better than the HDR material.
I believe one company makes ALL the OLED panels, Sony uses the same panels as LG, but uses their Sony electronics/processors on the back end. Like computers, as you go up in price you get faster processors, higher grade electronics, etc., like many base models do not have HDR capabilities.

IMO like guitars, match your budgets and your needs, don't buy differences you can't hear (with guitars), or can't see (with televisions).

Audio has changed too, from surround sound to 3 dimensional Dolby Atmos/Auro 3D/DTS:X), with the addition of height/top speakers. I experimented running my system 7.2 (mains/center/2 subs/surrounds/surrounds backs), added two speakers and tried 7.2.2 (mains/center/2 subs/surrounds/surrounds backs/front height), and then the new formats Dolby Atmos/Aura 3D/DTS:X with 5.2.4 (mains/center/2 subs/front height/surrounds/surround heights), you can hear the Atmos/Aura 3D difference.

WARNING !! 4K HDR is copy protected, if you route through a receiver it must be HDCP 2.2 (High Definition Copy Protection) compliant. Even if a receiver says 4K it will only pass through a 1080 signal if not HDCP 2.2. A lot of heavily discounted receivers are not HDCP 2.2 compliant, and they don't tell you 4K HDR won't work, very deceptive to me.

For example I bought a Denon 4300 when I got my TV, it was discounted from $1600 to $800, I was unaware of HDCP 2.2 at the time, and it wouldn't pass a 4K HDR signal. The new model 4400 is basically the same receiver but with the newest audio/video formats/codecs, it works great and upscales everything to 4K.

The last time I was at Best Buy over half the receivers on display were not HDCP 2.2, many discounted because they were the previous model, and they'll work fine unless you have a 4K television and route through them, then you need HDCP 2.2 compliant receivers, learn from my mistakes...
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  #21  
Old 11-18-2017, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
My Plasma suffered image retention, being retired I leave my set on while working around the house. If you leave a Plasma or OLED on the same channel for extended periods ("planted"), Fox, CNN, MSNBC, ESPN, etc., their logos can "burn in" leaving a ghost image.

We're talking many hours over time, but it's a known problem and "image retention" is not covered by warranty. Plasmas were around look enough there are a lot of articles about burn-in, and now some early OLED adapters have reported the same. My Best Buy salesperson showed me floor sample OLEDs with image retention, that they periodically removed/replaced so as not to hurt sales, but again this only applies to hours a day on a favorite channel over time, not a problem for most folks but something to be aware of.

The Z9D's start at 65", so not on your radar. Aside from 4K, look for HDR which many base models don't have. HDR is High Dynamic Range which is a much broader and vivid color palatte/contrast, you can see the difference side by side.

FYI - some Best Buy prices for 55" 4K HDR televisions:

Sony A1E - OLED, $2800
Sony 930E - $1700, LED, their best 55" LED, Z9Ds start at 65"
LG E7P - $3000, their best 55" OLED

Again, the less expensive versions of the above do not have HDR, do an A/B and you'll see the difference. Hope this helps, I did a LOT of research on TVs, receivers, and 4K blu ray players before I bit the bullet........
Hey thanks for info. I had no idea about the "retention" Probably because I only view for a few hours at nite. Interesting about the 4k HDR My NAD receiver is also about 5 or 6 years like my tv so I am guessing it doesn't have HDCP 2.2 good info again thanks
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2017, 03:07 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
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Default 5 star recommendation - Planet Earth/Planet Earth 2 !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
I believe one company makes ALL the OLED panels, Sony uses the same panels as LG, but uses their Sony electronics/processors on the back end. Like computers, as you go up in price you get faster processors, higher grade electronics, etc., like many base models do not have HDR capabilities.

IMO like guitars, match your budgets and your needs, don't buy differences you can't hear (with guitars), or can't see (with televisions).

Audio has changed too, from surround sound to 3 dimensional Dolby Atmos/Auro 3D/DTS:X), with the addition of height/top speakers. I experimented running my system 7.2 (mains/center/2 subs/surrounds/surrounds backs), added two speakers and tried 7.2.2 (mains/center/2 subs/surrounds/surrounds backs/front height), and then the new formats Dolby Atmos/Aura 3D/DTS:X with 5.2.4 (mains/center/2 subs/front height/surrounds/surround heights), you can hear the Atmos/Aura 3D difference.

WARNING !! 4K HDR is copy protected, if you route through a receiver it must be HDCP 2.2 (High Definition Copy Protection) compliant. Even if a receiver says 4K it will only pass through a 1080 signal if not HDCP 2.2. A lot of heavily discounted receivers are not HDCP 2.2 compliant, and they don't tell you 4K HDR won't work, very deceptive to me.

For example I bought a Denon 4300 when I got my TV, it was discounted from $1600 to $800, I was unaware of HDCP 2.2 at the time, and it wouldn't pass a 4K HDR signal. The new model 4400 is basically the same receiver but with the newest audio/video formats/codecs, it works great and upscales everything to 4K.

The last time I was at Best Buy over half the receivers on display were not HDCP 2.2, many discounted because they were the previous model, and they'll work fine unless you have a 4K television and route through them, then you need HDCP 2.2 compliant receivers, learn from my mistakes...


Very informative I had no clue! So a lot of those “4K” receivers out there won’t pass a 4K signal? That’s really deceptive.
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  #23  
Old 11-18-2017, 03:33 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
I believe one company makes ALL the OLED panels, Sony uses the same panels as LG, but uses their Sony electronics/processors on the back end. Like computers, as you go up in price you get faster processors, higher grade electronics, etc., like many base models do not have HDR capabilities.

IMO like guitars, match your budgets and your needs, don't buy differences you can't hear (with guitars), or can't see (with televisions).

Audio has changed too, from surround sound to 3 dimensional Dolby Atmos/Auro 3D/DTS:X), with the addition of height/top speakers. I experimented running my system 7.2 (mains/center/2 subs/surrounds/surrounds backs), added two speakers and tried 7.2.2 (mains/center/2 subs/surrounds/surrounds backs/front height), and then the new formats Dolby Atmos/Aura 3D/DTS:X with 5.2.4 (mains/center/2 subs/front height/surrounds/surround heights), you can hear the Atmos/Aura 3D difference.

WARNING !! 4K HDR is copy protected, if you route through a receiver it must be HDCP 2.2 (High Definition Copy Protection) compliant. Even if a receiver says 4K it will only pass through a 1080 signal if not HDCP 2.2. A lot of heavily discounted receivers are not HDCP 2.2 compliant, and they don't tell you 4K HDR won't work, very deceptive to me.

For example I bought a Denon 4300 when I got my TV, it was discounted from $1600 to $800, I was unaware of HDCP 2.2 at the time, and it wouldn't pass a 4K HDR signal. The new model 4400 is basically the same receiver but with the newest audio/video formats/codecs, it works great and upscales everything to 4K.

The last time I was at Best Buy over half the receivers on display were not HDCP 2.2, many discounted because they were the previous model, and they'll work fine unless you have a 4K television and route through them, then you need HDCP 2.2 compliant receivers, learn from my mistakes...
This is true, but there are ways around HDCP 2.2. My Pioneer Elite is too old to have HDCP 2.2, so I send the 4k output directly to the TV and run an optical cable to the receiver to play audio. I have a Harmony remote so it's automatic after I set it up to turn on everything and put them on the correct inputs. You can also use the ARC return as well for HDMI to the receiver for audio. I already had an optical cable, so I decided to do that.
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  #24  
Old 11-18-2017, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by robj144 View Post
This is true, but there are ways around HDCP 2.2. My Pioneer Elite is too old to have HDCP 2.2, so I send the 4k output directly to the TV and run an optical cable to the receiver to play audio. I have a Harmony remote so it's automatic after I set it up to turn on everything and put them on the correct inputs. You can also use the ARC return as well for HDMI to the receiver for audio. I already had an optical cable, so I decided to do that.
"
I send the 4k output directly to the TV and run an optical cable to the receiver to play audio.
" Can I ask what are you "sending " the 4 k output from ? a Blue Ray player ? Cable Box ?

Great info, I could still use my old Receiver and just get the new Oppo player which has two HDMI outs, one HDMI 2.0 for video and one HDMI 1.4 for audio.
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  #25  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:23 PM
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"
I send the 4k output directly to the TV and run an optical cable to the receiver to play audio.
" Can I ask what are you "sending " the 4 k output from ? a Blue Ray player ? Cable Box ?

Great info, I could still use because my old Receiver and just get the new Oppo player which has two HDMI outs, one for video and one for audio
Xbox One for a while but just upgraded to the One X.
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  #26  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:42 PM
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Xbox One for a while but just upgraded to the One X.


Ok been itching to get the X just for the 4K blu Ray drive. Is it worth it? Forza 7 running in native 4K must look absolutely amazing!
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  #27  
Old 11-18-2017, 05:07 PM
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Ok been itching to get the X just for the 4K blu Ray drive. Is it worth it? Forza 7 running in native 4K must look absolutely amazing!
If all you need is a 4k player, the One S works for that.

Don't have Forza yet, but the games do look good.
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  #28  
Old 11-19-2017, 07:14 AM
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Here is the pro of routing through "some receivers", better upscaling.

If you go direct from your provider/source to your 4K TV and it's HDCP 2.2 compliant no problem, and you can send the audio to your receiver via optical/HDMI (ARC) or the older legacy connections.

Many upper end new model 4K HDR televisions automatically "upscale", and they do improve SD content, some, again deceptively to me, say "near 4K upscaling". But TV's are monitors, Smart TV's are also computers, they put their money in the picture components, upscaling is secondary.

I have Sony's flagship LED, XBR75Z9D, it has the best of everything Sony puts in their TV's, multiple dedicated processors, and it's know for it's upscaling.

If I go direct (from a DirecTV HD mini) 4K broadcasts are amazing, and SH/HD boradcasts are "upscaled", the picture is better than my Plasma and UHD Samsung, but it's not 4K.

The latest generations receivers are much more video-centric, aside from adding HDCP 2.2 compliance they incorporate excellent upscaling, worth running your video signal through.

I have a Denon X4400H, if you connect to your TV via HDMI (ARC), the Denon menu will overlay the TV picture. If I set the video out HDMI to "off" it is straight pass-through, the video is untouched, 4K is 4K, SD/HD get upscaled by the Sony, looks the same as going direct.

If however I turn on the HDMI video out, it provides upscaling options, including 4K(50/60) and ALL my TV programming is either 4K or upscaled to 4K, and the display button on my TV reports the signal as 4K which it doesn't do with it's own upscaling.

So, running your video through the better receivers with the latest HDR/4K upscaling will make all your TV broadcasts 4K, it's very impressive switching on screen from pass-through to 4K upscaling.

Don't know how good/bad other brand receivers upscaling is but the Denon's is superb. You don't need the most expensive models, if the second number is a "4" they have the latest upscaling, so 2400, 3400, 4400, etc. all have HDCP2.2 and 4K upscaling.

And that's why running through an appropriate receiver is a strong consideration, watch everything 4K, you get spoiled.......
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  #29  
Old 11-19-2017, 09:08 AM
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Lots to consider
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Old 11-19-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmyAddison View Post
Here is the pro of routing through "some receivers", better upscaling.

If you go direct from your provider/source to your 4K TV and it's HDCP 2.2 compliant no problem, and you can send the audio to your receiver via optical/HDMI (ARC) or the older legacy connections.

Many upper end new model 4K HDR televisions automatically "upscale", and they do improve SD content, some, again deceptively to me, say "near 4K upscaling". But TV's are monitors, Smart TV's are also computers, they put their money in the picture components, upscaling is secondary.

I have Sony's flagship LED, XBR75Z9D, it has the best of everything Sony puts in their TV's, multiple dedicated processors, and it's know for it's upscaling.

If I go direct (from a DirecTV HD mini) 4K broadcasts are amazing, and SH/HD boradcasts are "upscaled", the picture is better than my Plasma and UHD Samsung, but it's not 4K.

The latest generations receivers are much more video-centric, aside from adding HDCP 2.2 compliance they incorporate excellent upscaling, worth running your video signal through.

I have a Denon X4400H, if you connect to your TV via HDMI (ARC), the Denon menu will overlay the TV picture. If I set the video out HDMI to "off" it is straight pass-through, the video is untouched, 4K is 4K, SD/HD get upscaled by the Sony, looks the same as going direct.

If however I turn on the HDMI video out, it provides upscaling options, including 4K(50/60) and ALL my TV programming is either 4K or upscaled to 4K, and the display button on my TV reports the signal as 4K which it doesn't do with it's own upscaling.

So, running your video through the better receivers with the latest HDR/4K upscaling will make all your TV broadcasts 4K, it's very impressive switching on screen from pass-through to 4K upscaling.

Don't know how good/bad other brand receivers upscaling is but the Denon's is superb. You don't need the most expensive models, if the second number is a "4" they have the latest upscaling, so 2400, 3400, 4400, etc. all have HDCP2.2 and 4K upscaling.

And that's why running through an appropriate receiver is a strong consideration, watch everything 4K, you get spoiled.......
My receiver also upscales to 4k but it isn't HDCP compliant. I only run 4k sources to the TV directly. 1080 runs though the receiver and is upscaled.
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