The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 07-26-2017, 06:00 AM
saxonblue saxonblue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 1,072
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyboi View Post
Well I tried the capo trick to see if I could do a bar chord with the capo on the first fret and still no luck. So it looks like its just practice for me. I can do one on my electric guitar much easier though.
And I think it's a safe bet the action at the nut on your electric is lower than it is on the acoustic, also if it has 9s or 10s the tension is lower too. Barring chords should be easier on the electric. Maybe practice getting the bar chords nailed even better on the electric & you might find them easier to play on the acoustic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
A long time time ago, long, long, long...

Someone pointed out to me that when I barred a chord, my elbow was away from my body and that I ought to consider bringing it in closer to my body. I did and my index finger lined up with the frets. Bar chords became immensely easier for me after that. YMMV
Absolutely correct! It gets your arm more perpendicular to the fretboard when viewed from front on giving far better control as it positions your thumb behind the central area of where the chord is played eg: if you're playing an E shaped bar (such as an F on fret 1) your thumb should be pretty much directly behind the middle finger on the G string.

I probably wouldn't have got the point myself had it not been for the teacher I had in my mid-late teens. He would basically get off his chair & drag my elbow if need be to where it should be, the same as thumb placement, index finger placement for bar chords, pick technique etc. etc. For as much of a handy convenience as online tutorials are you sometimes need a bit of physical intervention to drive the point home & if you aren't aware there's a technique problem yourself then no one online is going to tell you either.
__________________
Mick

Martin D-28
Cole Clark FL2-12
Maton EBG808
Suzuki Kiso J200

Last edited by saxonblue; 07-26-2017 at 06:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-26-2017, 09:39 AM
jimrivera jimrivera is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 55
Default

I found the other iterations of the first position F chord such as F7 and F 7 minor to be more difficult. Less fingers down = more pressure on the bar.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-26-2017, 03:32 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 511
Default Do you need long fingers for an F bar chord?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanron View Post
Some one has probably mentioned this already but changing your strings to a lighter gauge will make all playing, including bar chords, easier. The down side of the change is you loose a bit of tone and your fingers will pay for it later if you move back to a heavier gauge.


I think an electric with light strings is excellent to learn the muscle memory of the shapes, plus you get that earlier gratification when you finally start to ring those chords cleanly. That's exactly how it worked for me. I started with electric, and bought my first acoustic about 3 months into it. By then I already knew cowboy chords and was starting to learn barre chords on my electric. When I touched an acoustic at the guitar store for the first time, I was surprised at how quick my fingers became sore, but I was able to play those chords I learned, the muscle memory transferred seamlessly, I just needed to build that extra hand endurance and thicker calluses.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:01 PM
Troyboi Troyboi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1neeto View Post
I think an electric with light strings is excellent to learn the muscle memory of the shapes, plus you get that earlier gratification when you finally start to ring those chords cleanly. That's exactly how it worked for me. I started with electric, and bought my first acoustic about 3 months into it. By then I already knew cowboy chords and was starting to learn barre chords on my electric. When I touched an acoustic at the guitar store for the first time, I was surprised at how quick my fingers became sore, but I was able to play those chords I learned, the muscle memory transferred seamlessly, I just needed to build that extra hand endurance and thicker calluses.
Yeah well that sounds like a plan. I might keep practicing bar chords on my electric but then also switch over to the acoustic to keep the callouses nice and hard. A combination of both might help.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-26-2017, 10:25 PM
1neeto 1neeto is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyboi View Post
Yeah well that sounds like a plan. I might keep practicing bar chords on my electric but then also switch over to the acoustic to keep the callouses nice and hard. A combination of both might help.


That's how I've been playing ever since. I usually gravitate for my acoustic because it's just a lot easier to take it out of the case and play, whereas the electric I gotta plug it in.

Both guitars will train you on different things. The electric will train you on having a lighter touch, and if and when you start to play with distortion, you'll learn other small nuances like muting individual strings when playing leads, and a whole other things you can't do on an acoustic.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-27-2017, 06:32 AM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1neeto View Post
You don't need a capo since a barre chord is a movable chord. That's why I recommended to start at G# barre as a starting point.i guess a capo helps to release nut tension, but I think after the second-third fret, it doesn't really matter.

I think this is a good suggestion. I started learning that shape on G or so and once I had it there, moving it back toward the neck was fairly easy.
__________________
"Militantly left-handed."

Lefty Acoustics

Martin 00-15M
Taylor 320e Baritone
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-27-2017, 02:06 PM
gfa gfa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Tozier View Post
Nope. I have relatively short fingers, and the F barre chord is no problem.

However, it wasn't always that way. That F chord is pretty difficult for most beginners, regardless of finger size. It just takes lots of practice, patience, and perseverance... but if you stick with it, it'll eventually be easy to play without even thinking about it.

I'm sure everyone on this forum remembers how it felt when they were in your position. Don't give up... you'll get it!
Yes, this ^^^. And Troyboi, once you've mastered that barred F you'll be able to move that shape up the neck to play a whole bunch of other chords. G#? No problem!
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:05 PM
beninma beninma is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 249
Default

If you search the forum on nut height, read a lot, and then go get some feeler gauges you can get an idea how your nut is compared to what it would be with a *really* good setup.

I had 2 setups done locally, they didn't do a whole lot to make the F barre chord easier. Maybe if I'd specified the height of the bottom of the slots above the frets in thousandths of an inch they would have listened, but if you just take it in and ask them to lower the action for a beginner they don't do much IME.

I've done 2 nut setups myself now recently following directions from Charles Tauber & Frank Ford on this forum. Now there is no hand strain barring the first fret and the F is really no harder than the G or A Barre chord up the neck. The chords around the first 3 positions sound a heck of a lot better too as the intonation is now better. I can play quite a bit longer and my hand is feeling better throughout the day after less than a week. I was fatiguing my hand a lot before.

Regarding finger length.. I have long fingers, my index finger is ~3" and my middle and ring fingers are longer. AFAICT very few guitars are wider than 2", so I have a bunch of extra finger to figure out where to place. If your finger is shorter you don't have to worry about that variable, and the knuckles are closer together. One thing I'm noticing is I seem to do better with the knuckles right over a string as opposed to falling between two strings. I still have a long way to go on this chord too, I've actually never really found the four string version much easier.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:16 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Earth, mostly
Posts: 1,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
You've had all the info already so, now you know that it isn't abut your fingers and that you WILL master the F shape chord, but don't forget the thumb over option (where the thumb frets the 6th string).
+1 for the thumb thing. I stopped using barre chords as soon as somebody showed me how to use my thumb on the 6th string and I've been a happy camper for over 50 years doing it this way.
__________________
Harmony Sovereign H-1203
"You're making the wrong mistakes."
...T. Monk

Theory is the post mortem of Music.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 08-29-2017, 05:39 AM
Troyboi Troyboi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 120
Default

Well just over a month from first posting this I did my first F bar chord and it rang out without any fret buzz. I was so excited. Ive been practicing them on and off all the time and its taken ages just to get to that. I still can't change to and from the chord yet but hey its a start at least.
I am getting better at my Bmin bar chord and can just manage to switch to and from them in a song.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 08-29-2017, 05:50 AM
lowrider lowrider is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 617
Default

You don't need long fingers. What you need is to practice it every day, even if it's only for a minute at first. Just try it a few times and move on. It takes time but you will get it.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 08-29-2017, 05:51 AM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 802
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyboi View Post
Well just over a month from first posting this I did my first F bar chord and it rang out without any fret buzz. I was so excited. Ive been practicing them on and off all the time and its taken ages just to get to that. I still can't change to and from the chord yet but hey its a start at least.
I am getting better at my Bmin bar chord and can just manage to switch to and from them in a song.
Yay! I think off and on is the way to go, myself. It'll come with a lot less effort that way in my experience. Again... Yay!
__________________
"Militantly left-handed."

Lefty Acoustics

Martin 00-15M
Taylor 320e Baritone
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 08-29-2017, 12:06 PM
KDepew's Avatar
KDepew KDepew is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Cincinnati Ohio
Posts: 180
Default

Lots of great advice here. All of my students and myself have struggled with this chord. But everyone has been able to conquer it with practice and determination! and a little pain
__________________
Kevin Depew:

Relax and Learn Guitar Website
http://www.relaxandlearnguitar.com

Relax and Learn Guitar Youtube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC21...d4xG62AL7FGD2Q

Live Lessons on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/RelaxandLearnGuitar/
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 08-29-2017, 03:33 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 643
Default

When I first tried learning the guitar I used the easy F where the index finger bars the high e and b strings. I never progressed beyond the absolute beginner stage.

Some years later when I got serious about it, I decided to only go with the full barre F. I hadn't tried to guitar in 20 years and was a beginner all over again.

It took me a good 3 or 4 months before the F started to sound good. It's worth the effort, hang in there. When I see beginners now who won't play anything other than the easy F, I encourage them to go with the full barre F.

Funny thing is I have a couple of songs where the easy F is what I need and I now struggle to play that. Nothing a bit of practice wont' fix.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 08-29-2017, 03:43 PM
Mystery123 Mystery123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: US
Posts: 757
Default

Haha... I used to think the same way even though I have normal finger length.
Now I can barre F chord with quarter of the finger hanging outside the 6th string.
Practice practice practice.
__________________
Yamaha FG700s, FS700S SDB, Ibanez AW70, PF5NT,
Traveler Speedster, PRS SE Soapbar II, Aria Pro II, Alvarez RD8C.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > PLAY

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=