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  #1  
Old 09-03-2017, 08:57 PM
jgottsman11 jgottsman11 is offline
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Default What next on expanding my chord knowledge on jazz?

I consider myself an fairly good player, however comparable to most I see on the forums and elsewhere, you guys have some serious chops. I want to further expand my knowledge of jazz chords and different chord shapes and learn how they go together. Are there any good youtube series of lessons I could check out to better my jazz play or chord progression abilities with "odd" chords? Or should I find an instructor locally to get me into that realm?
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Old 09-03-2017, 08:59 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Find an instructor who's playing you like.
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:48 PM
flagstaffcharli flagstaffcharli is offline
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I don't know about anything on Youtube. Apologies.

However, I am using the Jamey Aebersold jazz series of books and recordings. I really like it a lot. The emphasis is on improvisation, but there is a tremendous amount of useful information on harmony.

Also, Arnie Berle wrote a column called Fretboard Basics for Guitar Player years ago. Some of those columns were collected into a book, and I have been using that one as well. It's a good basic primer in jazz materials for the guitar.

Like you, I have been playing a long time and think I play pretty well. But I have wanted a new challenge, and I am really trying to learn to be a competent jazz player. I've always loved jazz. So I figure it's now or never.
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Old 09-03-2017, 10:51 PM
flagstaffcharli flagstaffcharli is offline
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I forgot about this. National Jazz Workshop has some good, free materials:

http://nationaljazzworkshop.org/freestuff.php
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:41 PM
JohnW63 JohnW63 is offline
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I've giving Ted Greens's books a try.

Modern Chord Progressions: Jazz & Classical Voicings for Guitar
Chord Chemistry
Jazz Guitar Single Note Soloing, Volume 1

The guy had big hands, I think. Some of the shapes are out of my fingers reach, but if you want to know about alternate voicings and chords shapes....the dude knew his stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZENkj7C7Bw
The stuff he plays while chatting with with someone at the party.

Poor video quality in this one,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sYAoRj_Fro

Here's one where Tommy E talks of Ted and the Chord Chemistry book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO2Pu3Dadkw
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2017, 06:19 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgottsman11 View Post
I consider myself an fairly good player, however comparable to most I see on the forums and elsewhere, you guys have some serious chops. I want to further expand my knowledge of jazz chords and different chord shapes and learn how they go together. Are there any good youtube series of lessons I could check out to better my jazz play or chord progression abilities with "odd" chords? Or should I find an instructor locally to get me into that realm?
I'm not sure what there is online, but I can list the chord types you need to know, and their usual functions (place in major or minor keys).

There are six types of 7th chord:

Maj7 = I and IV in major key. III and VI in minor key

Dom7 = V in major and minor key

Min7 = ii, vi and iii in major key. iv in minor key

m(maj7) = i in minor key. (The rarest type.)

m7b5 (half-dim) = ii in minor key

dim7 = vii in major and minor key.

That covers all the common functions.

Tonic chords can also be 6ths, in major and minor keys.

Make sure you know as many shapes as you can find for those types (4-string shapes are fine) for every key, all over the fretboard, in various inversions (root needn't be on the bottom). Focus on maj7, dom7 and min7 first.
The CAGED system may help here. Any major chord (all 12) is playable in 5 different shapes. Each one of those can be expanded into a maj7 or dom7 version.
Also a maj6 chord is the same as an inverted min7 - the same shapes work for both. C6 = Am7
Likewise, a min6 chord is the same as an inverted m7b5 - the same shapes work for both. Am6 = F#m7b5.

For chord sequences, practice ii-V-Is:

Dm-G7-Cmaj7 (or C6) = ii-V-I in C major
Dm7b5-G7-Cm(6 or maj7) = ii-V-i in C minor

12 major keys and 12 minor keys, remember! But go for jazz keys first, like F, Bb and Eb, not the sharp keys you're used to as a guitarist. (You need to know them too, but they're rare in jazz.)

Going further....

Dom7s are frequently altered, which form a few sub categories, usually defined by associated scales:
7b9, 13b9 = HW dim
7#9, 7b9, 7#5#9, 7b5b9, etc = altered
7#11, 9#11, 13#11 = lydian dominant
9#5, 9b5 = wholetone

Lydian dominant chords are normally used as bII, bVII or IV chords, rarely as V chords. The others are mostly used as V7 variants.
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Old 09-04-2017, 07:45 AM
Llewlyn Llewlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgottsman11 View Post
I consider myself an fairly good player, however comparable to most I see on the forums and elsewhere, you guys have some serious chops. I want to further expand my knowledge of jazz chords and different chord shapes and learn how they go together. Are there any good youtube series of lessons I could check out to better my jazz play or chord progression abilities with "odd" chords? Or should I find an instructor locally to get me into that realm?
I like the Joe Pass method which is, though, a non-standard approach. I think JohnW63 recommended you fairly conventional resources. The best approach remains going to a teacher imo.

Ll.
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:44 PM
jseth jseth is offline
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There are a number of "deeper" archetypes of Western harmony...

Basic Modal Interchange - check that one out... basically shows "how" a major chord scale "fits" alongside a major chord scale that's a minor 3rd up... i.e., Cmaj diatonic scale with an Eb major diatonic scale...

Lydian substitute chords occur at bII, bIII, IV, bVI and bVII, all maj7#11 chords... very rarely will one show up as a bV maj7#11 chord...

Dominant 7th chords are magic! You can nail down all the reasons "why?", using all the available harmonic information, but, basically, what you end up with is that ANY dom7th chord can go ANYWHERE you want... 1/2 step up or down, maj or min 3rd up or down, IVth's, Vth's... even if you establish a pattern and continue that pattern, it can go anywhere and "make sense', aurally. Lots of fun!

Functional Re-harmonization, as taught at Berklee School of Music, establishes a template that extends into every major key... not sure if I want to try to go into it here; hell, I'm not sure I'd want to go into it if I was giving you harmony lessons! I bet if you search it, you'll find it.

What I found, after going as deep into this stuff as I have, is that, ultimately, I want to be able to reproduce the sounds I hear inside my head/heart... and "in there", I don't hear a whole lot of extra-bizarre stuff... so I use all this harmony stuff sparingly, and ONLY when I REALLY, REALLY MEAN IT... otherwise, it's just an exercise in showing off what I know...

With INTENT, one can play anything at all and it will be... perfect...
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Last edited by jseth; 09-05-2017 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 09-04-2017, 03:52 PM
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min7b5 min7b5 is offline
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Ted Greene books
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:59 AM
fuman fuman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonPR View Post
I'm not sure what there is online, but I can list the chord types you need to know, and their usual functions (place in major or minor keys).

There are six types of 7th chord:

Maj7 = I and IV in major key. III and VI in minor key

Dom7 = V in major and minor key

Min7 = ii, vi and iii in major key. iv in minor key

m(maj7) = i in minor key. (The rarest type.)

m7b5 (half-dim) = ii in minor key

dim7 = vii in major and minor key.

That covers all the common functions.

Tonic chords can also be 6ths, in major and minor keys.

Make sure you know as many shapes as you can find for those types (4-string shapes are fine) for every key, all over the fretboard, in various inversions (root needn't be on the bottom). Focus on maj7, dom7 and min7 first.
The CAGED system may help here. Any major chord (all 12) is playable in 5 different shapes. Each one of those can be expanded into a maj7 or dom7 version.
Also a maj6 chord is the same as an inverted min7 - the same shapes work for both. C6 = Am7
Likewise, a min6 chord is the same as an inverted m7b5 - the same shapes work for both. Am6 = F#m7b5.

For chord sequences, practice ii-V-Is:

Dm-G7-Cmaj7 (or C6) = ii-V-I in C major
Dm7b5-G7-Cm(6 or maj7) = ii-V-i in C minor

12 major keys and 12 minor keys, remember! But go for jazz keys first, like F, Bb and Eb, not the sharp keys you're used to as a guitarist. (You need to know them too, but they're rare in jazz.)

Going further....

Dom7s are frequently altered, which form a few sub categories, usually defined by associated scales:
7b9, 13b9 = HW dim
7#9, 7b9, 7#5#9, 7b5b9, etc = altered
7#11, 9#11, 13#11 = lydian dominant
9#5, 9b5 = wholetone

Lydian dominant chords are normally used as bII, bVII or IV chords, rarely as V chords. The others are mostly used as V7 variants.
Don't think I've ever seen this expressed so well this concisely. Nicely done.
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2017, 08:05 AM
amyFB amyFB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flagstaffcharli View Post
...the Jamey Aebersold jazz series of books and recordings. I really like it a lot. The emphasis is on improvisation, but there is a tremendous amount of useful information on harmony.

....
Everything thing I know about playing jazz started from a week at Jamey Aebersold's SUmmer Jazz Workshop series in Lousiville, KY.

His instructional materials cover a huge range of topics and even his free brochure is worth the price of postage for all the summarized charts of info for reference.

good luck to you!
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2017, 07:04 AM
Bikewer Bikewer is offline
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I tend to keep things fairly simple; I have a rather-constrained library of chords that I use to work out chord-melody arrangements.
These are mostly 4-5 string shapes with the roots on one or other of the bass strings.
Joe Pass, in a video lesson on this style of playing, said "Figure out the melody and find chords that sound good". Pretty much what I try to emulate.

The Jazz Guitar Forum site:

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/

Has a wide variety of free lessons on all manner of things including commonly-used chord shapes and progressions... Some very knowledgeable folks there. In addition, the guy that runs the place has a video blog on Tumblr.

I know many think of Ted Greene as the great authority on the subject and recommend his "chord chemistry" books.
But at my age, I find many of his chord shapes quite unplayable. And listening to him play various tunes on YouTube.. Not my cup of tea.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:52 PM
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Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgottsman11 View Post
I consider myself an fairly good player, however comparable to most I see on the forums and elsewhere, you guys have some serious chops. I want to further expand my knowledge of jazz chords and different chord shapes and learn how they go together. Are there any good youtube series of lessons I could check out to better my jazz play or chord progression abilities with "odd" chords? Or should I find an instructor locally to get me into that realm?
What music do you want to play?
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Old 09-06-2017, 01:57 PM
woody70 woody70 is offline
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You may want to check out Jens Larsen, he is a professional teacher very active on youtube
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