Hide Glue?

[MD1983]

Does hide glue really make a difference in tone? It feels like every high-priced guitar review/endorsement I've seen or read, someone is extolling the virtues of hide glue as some kind of magical tonal elixir.

[SongwriterFan]

Hard to say, really.

There's just no way to do a completely fair A/B due to variability in woods/etc.

[Rod Neep]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

Hard to say, really.

There's just no way to do a completely fair A/B due to variability in woods/etc.

Hard to do a fair A/B because hide glue is generally used on more expensive models.

But to the original poster.
Yes... it helps release the better tone of a good guitar.

Rod

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by Rod Neep

Hard to do a fair A/B because hide glue is generally used on more expensive models.

No.

Hard to do because you simply can't build two guitars where ONLY one variable (like the glue) is changed. Just cannot be done.

[StevenL]

Highly unlikely ...

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by MD1983

Does hide glue really make a difference in tone?

Hi MD...

Depends if you talk to the builder or the marketing department.

Originally Posted by MD1983

Does hide glue really make a difference in tone? It feels like every high-priced guitar review/endorsement I've seen or read, someone is extolling the virtues of hide glue as some kind of magical tonal elixir.

Well, it is certainly not THAT!

I do believe it makes a positive difference, however there is no one thing than makes or breaks a guitar. That is assuming you have a reasonably good design and competent construction.

What I hear is a little more "snap" or maybe "clarity" is a better word. The hide glue guitars seem to be a little quicker with more punch, especially on individual notes. I can hear this in recent guitars as well as pre/post 1964 Martins. Martin used some hide glue after the move to the new factory, but not generally on the neck, bridge, and bracing. There were other changes too, but I am convinced that hide glue is part of the answer.

And of course that is the trend that I'm hearing, not something that is obvious in every situation, but I hear it consistently enough to believe it.

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

Hard to do because you simply can't build two guitars where ONLY one variable (like the glue) is changed. Just cannot be done.

That can be said of any component. What you look for is trends. I believe I can hear trends in hide glue guitars, or guitars with repairs such as bridge re-glues, neck sets, and such. IMO it makes a difference.

Rod said it well, I think it makes a good guitar better.

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Depends if you talk to the builder or the marketing department.

I know very few people in the marketing departments. The majority of the builders and repairmen I work with prefer it for both structure and tone. The now discontinued LMI white glue is a close second, with Titebond near the end of the paved road.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

…The majority of the builders and repairmen I work with prefer it for both structure and tone. The now discontinued LMI white glue is a close second, with Titebond near the end of the paved road.

Hi Todd...
I'm not an expert, nor a builder. I'm a fan of Hide Glue, fish glue etc.

The luthiers I've heard talk about it prefer it for later potential of repairs. None of the ones I chatted with thought they could detect any tone improvement nor decline with it.

I agree the seasoned veteran builders do mention the formerly available LMI white bond.

I also don't know any luthiers who limit themselves to a single adhesive.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

The luthiers I've heard talk about it prefer it for later potential of repairs. None of the ones I chatted with thought they could detect any tone improvement nor decline with it.

That's been my impression of their general "take" on it, too.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by MD1983

Does hide glue really make a difference in tone?...

In my experience, it does indeed.

[Halcyon/Tinker]

Most of the folks I know, including myself, don't think it has any real discernible affect on tone. It's less convenient than PVA's, but also not that big of a deal. No real mystery to it. It's a time proven low cost adhesive, and it makes a great bullet point on your stat sheet.

Repairability is where it really shines. I've switched to HHG for my bridges for that exact reason only. I had to pull a bridge and ended up having to rebuild a guitar cause I pulled up top fibres while trying to scrape the old yellow glue off.

With hide glue, you can just heat it back up and it will re activate and still give a proper bond. That's a nice feature.

Some folks I know are getting off the fish glue train, citing that it will release in RH conditions that are not too far from what you can realistically plan for and giving them warranty woes.

[MD1983]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

In my experience, it does indeed.

Have you played two models exactly similar in every respect other than the type of glue used?

[00-28]

I know very few people in the marketing departments. The majority of the builders and repairmen I work with prefer it for both structure and tone. The now discontinued LMI white glue is a close second, with Titebond near the end of the paved road.

How many do you work with? That means nothing. Most of the luthiers that have posted here and on the UMGF have stated that it does nothing for tone. For those that believe it does do something for tone, if you ask the how, they alway answer something like, " I don't know, I just feel it does."

Hide glue has some advantages with repairs and construction, but nothing in tone. I have never seen a reduction in repair cost because of hide glue construction. ....Mike

[Bearclaw Spruce]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

No.

Hard to do because you simply can't build two guitars where ONLY one variable (like the glue) is changed. Just cannot be done.

A builder like Taylor or Martin could build a hundred guitars, 50 with hide glue and 50 with white glue, and we could get a general idea.

Don't expect it to happen, just like how Martin won't use M&T necks on their HD-28V to see if a dovetail neck joint really makes a difference or not. If it was found that it doesn't make a difference, and that it is the bracing which in fact makes the difference, then they would no longer be able to market that they use dovetail necks and that they're 'better' than bolt-on necks.

[zombywoof]

I gather that hot hide glue fills gaps well and is a strong adhesive as long as the parts are clamped properly and tightly joined. Never really ever heard it had any impact on sound though.