Tascam DP-24 drum recording

[MaurysMusic]

I spent some time at my drummer's place today and we played a few original recordings. We attempted to track the drums for 5 songs and I really like what we came up with. 2 mics on the kick, 2 on the snare, close-mic'd all the toms, 2 overheads and 1 room mic.

To me, I don't think we ran into any phase issues. Would you care to give a listen and share your thoughts? I can't be sure I have the blend of close mics - overheads - room mic right, and you're hearing everything pretty flat with no compression. On the overheads I rolled off some low end and slightly boosted the trebles. Did we get lucky or can you find faults? The kit sounded great but the room is untreated. On paper, I didn't expect to like the results as much as I do. Too good to be true usually follows.

[Rudy4]

They sound good to me, particularly considering that they'll sound better in the mix. I listened on pretty fair closed back phones.

From a more critical standpoint I hear more room than what I'd prefer, but that's going to be tempered with what you have to work with. I think I'd dump the room mic for sure. I'd prefer the snare drum to have more of an edge. The kick seems rather amorphous, but that might be the result of phasing issues from using two kick mics. Why two mics? I've never seen anyone do that, but I'm not that well-versed in drum miking. The overheads seem a bit dull, but that might be the mics.

The drum mix heard here would be different once it has the other instruments added in. I'm also not sure how much the mix was effected by Youtube compression.

[MaurysMusic]

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I've seen some of my peers (and engineers on YouTube demos) do one mic on the inside of the kick drum to get the transient and one mic outside, getting the boom. I can flip the phase on mic #2 and see what we get. Overheads are Rode NT5 and Rode NTG2 - similar enough (I had hoped) for a budget session. Maybe that's the problem there? All the close mics are flat. Maybe the snare can benefit from boosting treble? Would you mute the room mic or reduce its volume a bit? Yeah the final mix will tell the tale for sure.

[Bob Womack]

Hi!

I'm going to have to hear the kit in context to really decide but I've got some comments for you. Firstly, I think you've got something you can work with here. The ride cymbal is nice and pingy and the toms are snappy and I like that. I like your blend of the two mics on the snare, too. Now the constructive criticism.

One: For future reference, I'd mic the hi-hat, then use a roll-off filter and roll off everything except the crispness. You can then add that back in. Going with just overheads makes it hard to get a crisp hat. There's a recording philosophy going around that you should be able to get the kit with a pair over overheads but I really don't know anyone who doesn't mic the hat even if he's trying for the overhead thang.
Two: The kick is probably ringing too much. You may want to put the two mics on a group and expand (not gate) the group. A ringing kick will thicken the lower-mids of your mix. Don't be afraid to use EQ to remove some of the roundness if it clashes with the bass.
Three: You may find that the snare is also ringing too long, especially if you go with a reverb. Expand both the mic channels or group and expand the group.

If you find that the ring of the two drums persists in the overheads and creates to much wallah, you may have to roll off all the bass on the overheads until only the cymbals and drum hits are left.

Now little suggestions:
If you are going to have a voice or lead instrument in the center, pan the snare slightly offf-center right to make more physical space for the central main instrument. Besides, the overheads are probably going to put it off-center anyway!
Do your final EQ in context, alternating between listening to the mix and soloing the kit and/or particular drum.
The reason I go with expansion rather than gating is that it is much more natural sounding than a gate, which just clamps off by a fix amount once the sound drops below threshold. An expander can be set to sound quite natural, and will provide a clean drum sound if you are planning to place the particular drum in reverb.
If you are trying for a really modern snare sound and the current bled isn't doing it you may want to blend in less bottom mic. In Nashville they do what I call a "kip" snare. There isn't so much lower mic and they both EQ the roundness out and expand it down so you get what sounds like "kip!" The pattern sounds a little more rocky than that but that's something you may want to play with it for fun and to have it in your mental tool kit for future mixes.

Bob

[KevWind]

The suggestions I would have have pretty much been covered
And agree with Bob hearing it context would inform the discussion and suggestions greatly.
Given that I am at my other residence then where my studio is I can only listen on my laptop ear buds so with in mind. the only thought is ( not a drummer) but it is either the Ride Crash or Splash cymbal is possibly also ringing to long (depending entirely on the mix it will need to fit into and the arrangement)
Other that that it sounds like a pretty good kit recording to start mixing with.

[MaurysMusic]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate your opinions. Here's an updated version with some quick & dirty rhythm guitars and bass... just for some perspective. I lowered the bottom snare mic and the room mic a bit.

[Bob Womack]

Sounds nice and tight. Did you change anything in the kit? If not, it emphasizes the need for context. I know that the moment I put the kit in context it has to change and change it. The kick is pretty far back, by the way. I would probably handle that by bringing it out and the seeing if you can kill a little of the roundness/mids so you have more thump and click.

Bob

[MaurysMusic]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Sounds nice and tight. Did you change anything in the kit? If not, it emphasizes the need for context. I know that the moment I put the kit in context it has to change and change it. The kick is pretty far back, by the way. I would probably handle that by bringing it out and the seeing if you can kill a little of the roundness/mids so you have more thump and click.

Bob

Thanks again. I'll make a note and the next test mix I do will have more kick attack. I might try and add a scratch vocal too. The only thing I changed in the kit was to lower the volume a bit on the outer (boom) kick drum mic, and the bottom snare mic.

[MaurysMusic]

Bass guitar & kick drum compressed & more in front. Too much probably. #rabbithole

[runamuck]

I think the recording sounds fine. What pulls my attention away from the tune are the drummer's fills which speed up faster than the tempo of the song.

Don't miss the forest for the trees.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by MaurysMusic

Bass guitar & kick drum compressed & more in front. Too much probably. #rabbithole

We are now in the realm of pure style. Some folks like the bass up, others don't. As engineer/producers, we get to make the choice. Do try it out in your car and see what happens. I've got subs in my car and on my home system that let me know immediately if it is too thick.

Bob

[MaurysMusic]

Thank you again. Here's one more, where I pulled the guitars out mid-song. Thanks for listening.