@ ?s on Powered Speakers

[gfa]

1. 10s or 12s? (no subs)
2. QSC K series vs. Yamaha DXR series vs. JBL PRX 700 series.

The band is a drummer plus 3 or 4 people who play string instruments (guitar, uke, mandolin, banjo) and sing. We use two LDC mics and run everything through the mics (no pickups). Drums are loud enough that we don't worry about mic'ing them. Sometimes we have a cellist, who does play through a pickup. Sometimes one of the band plays an electric bass through a bass amp. Only the drummer has a monitor. Minimal processing. It's loosely a two-mic version of the one-mic approach. We play to small groups (under 100, and most often under 50) and don't usually want or need a very high SPL. We're background music, not a "shut up and listen to that band" ensemble.

[Wyllys]

Sounds like what I call enhanced acoustic rather than amplified...good for you!

As such there is a cogent argument to be made for using one very good powered speaker rather than two average speakers. Your coverage and volume needs aren't great, so a single point source should suffice. I use this often for playing dances with fiddle and skweezbox. It gives the instruments a bit of boost and the speaker on a stand 7' in the air gets the sound out over the crowd. No problem with voices either.

No comb filtering, fewer reflections into the room, hence a greater critical distance.

[buzzardwhiskey]

Our band: 1-6 dynamic vocal mics, 1-3 stringed instr with pickups, a mic'd cajon, and a mic'd electric bass amp.

We're using a pair of Yamaha DXR 10's and have never felt like we needed more.

That said, of course a pair of 12's can sound a bit fuller. It's a weight and convenience trade-off thing. If I could afford a couple roadies for every gig, I would absolutely have a pair of 150lb three-ways.

[zhunter]

We have QSC 10s and 12s. No drummer but a conga player. We put everything in the PA including bass. The 12s may handle bass slightly better (may) but I prefer the combination of dispersion and throw the 10s give. Lately we have been using the 12s to stay on the safe side since bass in the PA is relatively recent. That and the bass and conga players own and load the 12s and I own and load the 10s so I like the 12s a lot. heh. One thing I note is while on paper the 12s are similar in size, when it comes to load in and all, those 12s seem a lot bigger...and heavier. Glad I don't carry em much.

With your band setup, I think 10s will do you. As for the different brands? All good in my book. I think the JBLs are a little heavier but not a lot.

hunter

[gfa]

Originally Posted by zhunter

.. The 12s may handle bass slightly better (may) but I prefer the combination of dispersion and throw the 10s give.
...

I think the JBLs are a little heavier but not a lot.

hunter

Thanks all. Zhunter - that was more or less my thinking about 10s vs 12s, but that's just based on "something I read on the internet." It's helpful to hear confirmation from someone with hands-on experience. I expect the JBLs are a little heavier because the cabinets are wood, and the other two are plastic.

[TheJackal]

The bass player in my band has a PA that we use at times. He's got 2 Yamaha DXR 10s and a Yamaha MG-U mixer (12 or 16 don't recall which.) This set up is amazingly clean and is a joy to use. We've found that the 10s can handle anything we've thrown at them. This set up is better in every way that our old Peavey system with the powered mixer that weighs in at around 4 tons running to speakers that are guaranteed to assure that hernia doctors will forever have work.

I have no experience with the QSC speakers other than having read some positive reviews.

[gfa]

Cool, thanks for the report, Jackal.

straight outta' my phone

[lschwart]

I bet Wyllys is right about you usually only needing 1 speaker to accomplish what you describe, although you might want the second one for the times you do need more "enhancement."

The 10" versions of any of the speakers you list will do a great job, and I'd add RCF to the list (the Art 300 series, or one from one of their more expensive ranges if you've got the cash to invest in something really nice).

I think the DXR 10 is a very nice speaker for the price, and I've been using the RCF 310a now for several years very happily. One 310a for acoustic solo/duo/trio gigs; a set of four--two mains and two side-wash monitors for the full band, which includes two hand-drummers (mic'd--overhead--when necessary), acoustic bass (through an amp), clarinet (mic'd), fiddle (pickup), acoustic guitar (pickup), and vocals. I have a pair of Electro-Voice ZXA-1 subs for our occasional larger gigs that require mics on the bottoms of the doumbeks and putting the bass through the PA. Those speakers and a 12 channel Soundcraft analogue mixer (MFXi12) have made for a very serviceable, portable, and flexible small PA system for local gigging now for several years of 1-3 or so gigs a month.

Louis

[M Hayden]

One good speaker is a good thing, vs two so-so ones.
Two good speakers allow for stereo effects, which can be wonderful and very rich-sounding when good time-based effects come into the mix.

[gfa]

Using the same $ to buy one better speaker is an interesting idea, but I feel compelled to get two. That's probably mostly a result of a few decades of listening to recorded music on component stereo systems!

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by gfa

Using the same $ to buy one better speaker is an interesting idea, but I feel compelled to get two. That's probably mostly a result of a few decades of listening to recorded music on component stereo systems!

1. Stereo in live sound is pretty much a myth except for certain time-based effects, but even then debatable.

2. Stereo perception will occur only at the point or line of points equidistant from the two speakers.

3. Room reflections wash out the stereo imaging at all points beyond the critical distance.

4. You can always buy a second matching speaker down the road.

There's more but I'll stop for now.

W

[gfa]

Originally Posted by Wyllys

1. Stereo in live sound is pretty much a myth except for certain time-based effects, but even then debatable.

2. Stereo perception will occur only at the point or line of points equidistant from the two speakers.

3. Room reflections wash out the stereo imaging at all points beyond the critical distance.

4. You can always buy a second matching speaker down the road.

There's more but I'll stop for now.

W

Wyllys, that's not what I meant. One speaker just doesn't look right to me; my mind wants a second. The system will run in mono.

[pipedwho]

A second speaker is useful to widen the coverage pattern if your audience is spread out wide or around you. This is particularly useful if the speakers are typical conventional FOH/monitor style speakers with only around 90 degrees of horizontal coverage.

[martingitdave]

I would consider Wyllys' recommendation for one good speaker. Most of these quality speakers with have horizontal coverage of 90 to 100 degrees. That's usually good enough. It you get it high enough in the air, you should get good coverage. At the lower SPL, and with higher fidelity microphones, it would seem like the higher quality powered speaker would pay off. As far as size, everything but the bass guitar is just fine through a 10" speaker. Some people will play bass through a 10", but I've always found a dedicated bass amp of 12" speaker preferable. However, 12" are heavier to lift. I would probably opt for a 10" and continue to have the bass player bring the bass amp.


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[Groovekings]

Just my 2 cents. Take a look at the EV ZLX12P speakers. Good compromise. 12 inch, 1000 watts peak, built in dsp, 126 db SPL, affordable and only weigh 34 pounds. I have two but use one only for many gigs. Acoustic duo - guitar and bass but the bass doesn't go through the system. If you want to add a powered sub the EV's have a built in variable crossover. Can't beat em with a stick.


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