Considering a true classical guitar...

[tbeltrans]

I am not sure that I am necessarily asking anything specific here. Instead, I am just airing this situation and any thoughts are certainly welcome, since I do have a decision to make about this over the next several days...

Today I brought home from The Podium, a classical guitar to live with for a few days to see if it is right for me. The guitar is built by Bill Brunton, of Fargo, ND.

www.bruntonclassicalguitars.com/

This is his top of the line, with a cedar top and rosewood back and sides, and French polish. This instrument was built in 2015, but is still a new instrument, rather than used (though it has been played in one or two Youtube performances).

There is a 45 minute documentary in which he is building this very instrument. Near the 24 minute point, Mr. Brunton is signing and gluing in the name paper, and it clearly shows the serial number, which matches this guitar.

https://vimeo.com/143610234

In this video, you will hear his philosophy while watching him build this guitar from wood selection to string up and playing the instrument. This is quite a nice bonus, to have the history of the instrument to watch anytime.

It has been quite a few years since I owned and played a "true" classical guitar, though I do currently have a very nice Taylor 2012 Fall Limited Edition crossover nylon string instrument (GAce-N-FLTD).

For quite some time, I felt that I just could not do a true classical guitar justice because it really takes some trained technique to get the sound that such an instrument is capable of. However, with this particular instrument, it seems as if the sound just comes out of it without any serious effort. The whole instrument vibrates with the sound.

Also, I broke my right wrist years ago and lost half of the rotation capability, making it difficult to play a standard classical guitar. This particular Brunton seems to be just a bit smaller in body size and width, as well as nut width, than a standard classical guitar. It feels a bit smaller, just enough to be quite comfortable to play well. It is amazing how such a small amount of change in nut width, body width, etc., can make such a large difference in how the guitar feels to play. However, the instrument has a HUGE sound that is quite warm and balanced.

What really strikes me about this instrument is the amount of tonal color I can get from it. The incredible variety of subtle tonal control is something I don't get to that degree from my crossover or any steel string instrument I have yet played.

I started out with a classical guitar, and seem to be hankering for the simplicity of a purely classical instrument, with no pickups, wiring harnesses, batteries, knobs, etc. Just simplicity itself, the player and the guitar, and I think this could be the one. Anyway, I can have it at home for a few days to see if should stay or not. This is not a big issue, since I know the folks at The Podium, have been dealing directly with them for many years, and their shop is only a half hour drive for me.

I don't really play classical music (though I can read, and do play from that genre on occasion). What I enjoy most is playing standards and popular music (typically, ballads) arranged for solo fingerstyle guitar, whether arranged by me or somebody else. Good examples can be found in Laurindo Almeida's books. Because I can do that, I can pretty much fit most anything I want to play within 12 frets. I have played around with open and alternate tunings, but standard tuning suits me best.

Anyway, decisions, decisions, though this one should be easy.

Tony

[Red_Label]

Nice work! If you like it, go for it! I don't see how you can possibly go wrong with a well-built luthier-made instrument that floats your boat. If nothing else, you always have something of value down the road if you decide that it's not your thing in the long term. Well-made classicals/flamencos are designed to give great response, tone, and volume purely acoustically. They are more lightly braced and finished than inexpensive factory guitars and are a pleasure to play and listen to for most. Not all are "easy" to play (*cough* Ramirez) due to width/scale, but what is easy is up to the hands of the player. And even in cases where the guitar is a handful to play (as in the above-mentioned Ramirez)... the tone, response and volume more often than not makes it worth it to wrestle with "the dragon".

I envy you. I haven't yet found the right single luthier-built instrument (at the right price at the right time), but when I do... I'll find a way to procure it! In the meantime, I've been extremely happy with my Cordobas... but that doesn't mean that I don't yearn for a true heirloom quality guitar that was handcrafted by just ONE passionate builder, using old world methods and tools. Because I most certainly do!

[hesson11]

That really sounds like a nice guitar. Plus, looking over Mr. Brunton's website, you just WANT his guitars to be great. Seems like a very nice, genuine guy. As the saying goes, if a guitar speaks to you, make it yours. Besides, it looks like the Podium has a pretty selection of classicals you can compare it to.

Just for whatever it's worth. I have hand issues, too, but mine are mainly in the left hand. I find it extremely beneficial to play shorter-scale (630mm or 640mm) guitars with smaller bodies. If you want to see what else out there in that general type, you might look up Kenny Hill's website. He makes many short-scale, smaller-body guitars, as does his China-made New World lineup. Kenny set up the China shop and oversees everything. The guitars offer exceptional quality and value. I believe the Podium is a dealer, too.

You might also look up Savage Classical Guitars. Under "Classical Guitars" on the home page, there's a pop-up menu with a "Small Scale Guitars" link. He offers more small guitars than most places, with unusually complete information and sound clips for every one.

But as I said, if you think you have a winner and if you if you want to support your local dealer (always a great idea), you may have found exactly what you want. In fact, Mr. Brunton's prices are so reasonable, I may look into his work myself!

Good luck.
-Bob

[hesson11]

Forgot to mention Cordoba also offers several short-scale, small-body guitars: Cadete, Dolce, C9 Parlor, C10 Parlor and Master Series Torres. If you're shopping in Mr. Brunton's price range, you'd probably be interested in the Torres. But it really sounds like that Brunton is quite nice!
-Bob

[tbeltrans]

Thanks so much for your informative responses Bob and Red Label. I have been playing and playing this guitar. It is 650 mm scale, but feels very comfortable. For some reason, it does not feel like the stretch that classical guitars I have owned in the past did. Maybe those were longer scale, I really didn't know about that sort of thing back then.

One concern I do have with any guitar, especially classical guitars, is whether my left hand would start to cramp after playing a lot. There is absolutely no sign of that with this instrument.

I definitely am excited at the prospect of owning a classical guitar that was built by one person from start to finish. I already have a 00 12 fret steel string that was built the same way by William Kelday in Scotland.

Watching the build documentary, it seems Mr. Brunton really does the "by hand" thing. Watching him carve the neck was especially interesting. The neck has a interesting shape. It is essentially flat on the back, rather than the more typical "C" type of shape.

Anyway, I am almost certain already that this is the one for me. I know I would be really "bummed" if I took it back, it sold a few days later, and I had regrets about the whole thing. I really do appreciate Jim letting me take the guitar home for a few days. It is going to get played a lot, since I am retired. This instrument is so resonant and full that it is just a joy to play.

My wife wants to go up to Fargo this spring to visit a friend of hers. If we do that, I intend to visit Mr. Brunton. That should be fun. He does come across on his site and in the documentary as a really nice, philosophical guy. I would have liked him as a professor. I want a guitar built by a guy like him.

Tony

[hesson11]

As I'm sure you know, scale length is just one of many factors that go into playability. Perhaps you've just gotten your hands on one that puts it all together for you. BTW, it's somewhat tough to find a custom classical builder selling guitars for less than $5K to $7K. So going by the prices on the Podium and Brunton websites, this could be quite a bargain!
-Bob

P.S. I play steel strings, too, and even with my hand problems, I find classicals easier (and less painful!) to play. I can't quite put my finger on why, but that's what I've found.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by hesson11

As I'm sure you know, scale length is just one of many factors that go into playability. Perhaps you've just gotten your hands on one that puts it all together for you. BTW, it's somewhat tough to find a custom classical builder selling guitars for less than $5K to $7K. So going by the prices on the Podium and Brunton websites, this could be quite a bargain!
-Bob

P.S. I play steel strings, too, and even with my hand problems, I find classicals easier (and less painful!) to play. I can't quite put my finger on why, but that's what I've found.

Thanks for the information, hesson11. Personally, I seem to be more and more attracted to the sound and feel of nylon strings, and am playing steel string less and less. In some of these forums, I have been reading others express similar sentiment as we all get older.

Yes, I guess that these guitars are a bargain. they really are nice, very alive instruments. You really have to play one though to determine if it is right for you. Apparently, the guitar I have here has been sitting for quite some time. There are a couple of possibilities I can think of for this.

- Brunton is not a widely known name in guitar building
- The Podium does not put these guitars out where you can see them. If I was not checking their web site, I would never know they existed if I were going to the shop regularly. These instruments are French polished and therefore easily damaged. The one I have doesn't have any markings at all, so I certainly appreciate why Jim would do this.
- From what I understand, the guitar market as a whole is rather "soft". Even though these guitars are a bargain for what they are, the cost is probably more than many folks would want to spend. I know that if I were buying via "mail order" instead of the luxury of having Jim just hand me the guitar to try, I would be more inclined to stick with "name" brands (unless somebody specifically recommended a smaller builder), especially at that price. It seems that small builders of steel string guitars get a lot of press, but I don't really see that with classical guitars. there seems to be a strong tradition among that crowd.

Tony

[dkstott]

I wish you great success with your true classical. When I started the nylon string venture, I tried a lot of the "true classical" guitars (Yamaha, Takamine, Alhambra, etc.. ) out there and hated the neck shapes and the width of them.

FWIW - I'm not in a position to own a hand made nylon stringed guitar.. YET.

Once I discovered the Cordoba guitars, I fell in love. Even though my GK Pro has a 1.96" inch wide neck, it is fairly thin when compared to the usual baseball bat shaped classical guitars.

When you find a guitar that fits your hand like a glove, it makes playing so much more enjoyable.

Enjoy

[Gitfiddlemann]

Thanks for the summary and introduction to this luthier.

it's somewhat tough to find a custom classical builder selling guitars for less than $5K to $7K.

True that!
Good luck with your decision, but that seems to be a heckuva nice guitar, at a great price, by a real deal builder.

One concern I do have with any guitar, especially classical guitars, is whether my left hand would start to cramp after playing a lot.

Why would you think that?
If anything, it should free your hand up and lessen tension. I think people have an unfounded fear of roomier classical width fretboards. Sure, it may require a period of adaptation, but it's all good, and can impact your steel string playing in positive fashion as well. I wouldn't fear it at all, but welcome it.
Those tonewoods (cedar + rosewood) make for an excellent combination.
I also like Mr. Brunton's philosophy on scale lengths.
It's all personal preference, and most luthiers will agree there isn't much difference between 650 and 640 mm guitar builds, but all things considered, I tend to prefer the shorter lengths.
Thanks again for the heads up on Mr. Brunton, and enjoy that nice guitar if you decide to go for it.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by AndreF

Thanks for the summary and introduction to this luthier.

True that!
Good luck with your decision, but that seems to be a heckuva nice guitar, at a great price, by a real deal builder.

Why would you think that?
If anything, it should free your hand up and lessen tension. I think people have an unfounded fear of roomier classical width fretboards. Sure, it may require a period of adaptation, but it's all good, and can impact your steel string playing in positive fashion as well. I wouldn't fear it at all, but welcome it.
Those tonewoods (cedar + rosewood) make for an excellent combination.
I also like Mr. Brunton's philosophy on scale lengths.
It's all personal preference, and most luthiers will agree there isn't much difference between 650 and 640 mm guitar builds, but all things considered, I tend to prefer the shorter lengths.
Thanks again for the heads up on Mr. Brunton, and enjoy that nice guitar if you decide to go for it.

Thanks Andre. As for th hand cramping, I have personally had that experience in the past, not just with classical guitars. Therefore, I want to be sure that I won't have that problem with a guitar I am purchasing. I prefer a wider fretboard on any acoustic guitar, so the roomier fretboard is not the source of my concern. I like the shape of the neck on the Brunton instrument.

I played two Bruntons at The Podium. One is a used instrument with a spruce top. That instrument seems to be in mint condition, as I could find no signs of wear on it at all. However, I wanted an instrument with a cedar top, so I chose the one I took home. Both sounded quite good, but I just prefer the mellower tone of cedar on a classical instrument. I also prefer the look.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

After running through several pieces of music that would have caused my fretting hand distress on any other guitar, I had no problems with the Brunton at all. I have decided I am going to keep this one. What are the chances of finding something this nice and this playable at this price?

I had completely given up on owning and playing a "true" classical guitar for years. Something drew me to this instrument, and I am sure glad for that. Despite not having found a classical guitar I could live with until now, the sound and feel of the classical guitar has always been my favorite.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but this instrument has lattice bracing, along with a cedar top. You can see him creating the lattice bracing in the documentary. Brunton apparently builds both lattice braced and fan braced instruments, with the lattice bracing having an upcharge. After watching several youtube videos comparing and describing the differences between the two bracing concepts, I feel that the combination of lattice bracing and the warmer cedar top suits me best.

Tony

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

After running through several pieces of music that would have caused my fretting hand distress on any other guitar, I had no problems with the Brunton at all. I have decided I am going to keep this one. What are the chances of finding something this nice and this playable at this price?

I had completely given up on owning and playing a "true" classical guitar for years. Something drew me to this instrument, and I am sure glad for that. Despite not having found a classical guitar I could live with until now, the sound and feel of the classical guitar has always been my favorite.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but this instrument has lattice bracing, along with a cedar top. You can see him creating the lattice bracing in the documentary. Brunton apparently builds both lattice braced and fan braced instruments, with the lattice bracing having an upcharge. After watching several youtube videos comparing and describing the differences between the two bracing concepts, I feel that the combination of lattice bracing and the warmer cedar top suits me best.

Tony

Nice!!!

What are the chances of finding something this nice and this playable at this price?

Always a tall order. When you find something that really hits all the right notes with you as a player, and is within your budget, you have to go for it.
You would only be kicking yourself down the road for not making the (right) decision.
Enjoy, as I'm sure you will!

[tbeltrans]

Thanks Andre! I really appreciate the feedback. These things are big decisions to get it right, and "right" seems to be such an individual thing.

Tony

[LadysSolo]

Congratulations~ A lovely guitar at a great price for what you are getting, and to top it all off, it "speaks to you!" How great is that!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by LadysSolo

Congratulations~ A lovely guitar at a great price for what you are getting, and to top it all off, it "speaks to you!" How great is that!

Thanks LadysSolo! Very true.

Tony