Amp too loud for bedroom / not loud enough for gigs

[janmulder]

... I know that's a nice piece of kit ... BUT ... it costs one and a half times as much as the amp I'm trying to fix!

[Mr Bojangles]

Bedroom volumes: Bugera V5 set at .1 watt

Gigs: Fender Deluxe Reverb

P.S. I got a bigger bedroom (studio) and use a Marshall full stack when I want to...

[Blunote]

Consider a Little Lanilei 3350LT. It's a lunchbox sized tube amp that goes down to 1/4 watt at the lowest settings and 33 watts cranked.

I used to travel with mine and could play clean or fully saturated distortion at TV volume levels in my hotel room using the on board 6 1/2" speaker. I've also used it with a band and it cut through very nicely -especially plugged in to an external speaker. It'll drive 2 4X12 speakers at stage volume if you need it to.

The amp is voiced like an older style plexi or brown face Fender.

Check out the Youtube demos.

[The Kid!]

Originally Posted by Dakedi

... I know that's a nice piece of kit ... BUT ... it costs one and a half times as much as the amp I'm trying to fix!

It will solve your problem and be useful with other amps as well.

[clintj]

I'll throw another option out there: the Fryette Power Station. It can act as an attenuator, which is nothing new. The interesting part is that it can also boost the power of a small tube amp to as much as 50W for larger gigs.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[janmulder]

I thought I'd just follow up on this 1 year old thread of mine

In the end I sold the SCX2. I just couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted either at home or on a stage.

I tried some of the speaker suggestions. I put the Lil' Buddy in and it lost all of its sparkle. It just made it way to dark for me ... totally non fendery. It even made my telecaster sound dull.

I also tried a 10" Greenback ... this actually sounded good at home levels. I believe Fender do a special Version of the SCX2 with this speaker and I can see why. It sounded less efficient than the stock speaker and so you had to drive it a bit more ... typically I could use it with volume at about 12 to 1 o'clock which meant it was breathing properly.

However, it still didn't sound great at stage levels ... better than stock but somehow not as alive and dynamic as I am used to with an all valve amp. When you turn it up you really start to hear the digital-ness and this in the end is why I let go of it.

At the moment I'm using a Laney Lionheart 5 as my home amp and it works just great for that. Ironically, it even does small gigs better than the SCX2 because you can crank it to full volume and it doesn't lose its composure ... it's just not that small for grab and go.

I might just have to go for a secondhand B Jr after all and mod the tonestack and change the speaker ... or the Vox AC10C1 looks inviting

Anyway, I like it when folks follow up on their threads ... even when they are very old so I thought I'd do the same just in case it helps anyone out there.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Dakedi

...In the end I sold the SCX2. I just couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted either at home or on a stage... it still didn't sound great at stage levels...When you turn it up you really start to hear the digital-ness and this in the end is why I let go of it...I might just have to go for a secondhand B Jr after all and mod the tonestack and change the speaker ...or the Vox AC10C1 looks inviting

In the words of Marvin and Tammi, "ain't nothin' like the real thing, baby" - and when it comes to electric-guitar tone tubes are still the criterion by which everything else is judged...

If you're looking at the Fender BJ and Vox AC10 - nice amps both, with a strong following around here - I'd also recommend checking out a Bugera V22 Infinium before you buy. They've made some useful upgrades since the first-gen "blue-light" version (which I own): the new Turbosound speaker is a major improvement over the original Celestion wannabe (you probably won't be swapping this one anytime soon), and the Infinium circuitry makes power tube upgrade/replacement - strongly recommended, since the OEM Chinese tubes are the weak link in any Pac-Rim tube amp (including the Vox) - a DIY plug-&-play deal (a bias job runs about $100 in my neck of the woods); you've also got the advantage of dual channels, a mid-boost, and a pentode/triode mode switch - and if you can't decide between Fender-style clarity and punch or pre-Top Boost Vox-type tones you can have both in a single package. A lot going on for ~$400 brand-new - less if you hit a coupon day at your local big box (I've heard of them going for $300-325 out the door) - and well worth a look...

[KevWind]

Forgive my inexperience but given that amps have a volume control what is wrong with simply turning it down ? Is it that some amps simply sound bad at low level but markedly improve at higher levels ?

Now I completely understand not liking the tone which would seem to be a different subject.

I play my supro at low level often . I realize I am probably not driving it to it's full sonic potential But what I guess I don't understand why would that particularly matter ? Maybe it's my naivete" but I think it sound fine at low volume

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

In order:

• The Eminence Swamp Thang is exactly what you're looking for: definitely less midrangey and way smoother than the stock speaker, not to mention far more efficient (which translates to less power needed for a given volume level, which translates to more clean headroom - gotta give it a good 50+ hours of break-in time for it to really come into its own, though) - and when you get those Soviet-era mil-spec tubes I suggested into the equation, well...
• If you're looking for something smoother/mellower in a 10" speaker check out the Eminence Lil' Buddy, the baby brother to the 12" Cannabis Rex hemp-cone - more purely "American" in tonality than the hybrid-voiced Legend, which leads me to...
• If you need to dial back the mids and "slightly tiring" trebles - especially in an EL84-equipped amp - the one thing you don't want is a Celestion; they're great for heavier styles (where many American-voiced speakers can get muddy and indistinct) or brightening up a dark-sounding amp and/or guitar, but IME you're not going to get any bass/low-mid support unless you use them in multiples (think Vox AC30/Marshall Bluesbreaker, or the iconic 4x12" Marshall cab) and really push them - and since you're thinking downsize in terms of both size/weight and wattage, IMO it would be self-defeating...

Steve, wouldn't just swapping out the 12ax7's for lower gain pre-amp tubes increase the usable headroom? Wouldn't a set of 5751's or 12au7's provide the needed dial back in gain and still keep the Jr. at a giggable volume?

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Steve, wouldn't just swapping out the 12ax7's for lower gain pre-amp tubes increase the usable headroom? Wouldn't a set of 5751's or 12au7's provide the needed dial back in gain and still keep the Jr. at a giggable volume?

I'm not Steve, but from my memory the SuperChamp XD doesn't use the pre-amp type tube in it as a preamp. I could be wrong....

[janmulder]

That's right, the SCXD and SCX2 have a Digital Modeling preamp, tone stack and effects and then the signal gets pushed through a 12ax7 whose main duty is phase inversion for the output section. It does impart a bit of character (and probably a very small amount of gain - as can be demonstrated by changing the tube) but most of the preamp gain is derived from the digital modelling.

I would have been OK with this if you could bypass the preamp and go straight through to the power section which is actually quite a nice power section. You could then use something like the Kingsley Minstrel or Page as a front end. However, the amp doesn't allow this. Even in channel A (the clean channel) you are still going through the whole digital modelling / EQ / Effects section ... and nice as this sounds at lower volumes, it loses its composure when you get to above 3/4 volume.

[aknow]

You could check out the Boss Katana 100 w. Head: .5w (bedroom) 50w/100w
Requires a speaker cab, or an amp w/ spkr. ext. input.
Great unit, not quite the same as vintage tube sound, but would cover well for bedroom and gigs.

[janmulder]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Forgive my inexperience but given that amps have a volume control what is wrong with simply turning it down ? Is it that some amps simply sound bad at low level but markedly improve at higher levels ?

Now I completely understand not liking the tone which would seem to be a different subject.

I play my supro at low level often . I realize I am probably not driving it to it's full sonic potential But what I guess I don't understand why would that particularly matter ? Maybe it's my naivete" but I think it sound fine at low volume

Most valve amps don't sound their best until they are turned at least half way up. One of the main things you start to hear when the power valves join in the fun is each note seems to get surrounded by a halo of sound - both lows and highs - and this gives each note a fullness that is missing at low volumes. I for one love this effect the master section has on the notes.

You can easily observe this by picking some notes and gradually opening up the master volume ... at about 12 o'clock you will start to hear a distinct difference in the character of the note (not just the volume).

Other things that are often missing at lower volumes are the higher frequencies ... especially if the gain pot doesn't have a treble bleed (or bright switch). At higher gain levels it makes little difference having a bright switch on ... and full gain is equivalent to bright switch on.

[janmulder]

Originally Posted by aknow

You could check out the Boss Katana 100 w. Head: .5w (bedroom) 50w/100w
Requires a speaker cab, or an amp w/ spkr. ext. input.
Great unit, not quite the same as vintage tube sound, but would cover well for bedroom and gigs.

I'm done with digital modelling for now ... unless it's something like a Kemper.

It's not only about the sound. I think you can get pretty good sounds out of modelling these days and in a production you wouldn't notice any difference. However, I think it's more that a valve amp feels different to play ... especially at gig volumes. The cheaper ones have concentrated on getting the sound right and I think it's only the more expensive ones like Kemper that also attempt to address the feeling of playing a valve amp.

But, at the end of the day, it's all a matter of preference ... and dare I say, a little pinch of valve or analog 'snobbery' as well ... certainly in my case. There might even be a dose of placebo effect in there ... but I don't care

[janmulder]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Steve, wouldn't just swapping out the 12ax7's for lower gain pre-amp tubes increase the usable headroom? Wouldn't a set of 5751's or 12au7's provide the needed dial back in gain and still keep the Jr. at a giggable volume?

On a valve amp like the B.Jr a lower gain preamp tube like a 12ay7 or 5751 will lower the total gain but it will not give more clean headroom ... i.e. a louder clean sound.

It just means the gain/overdrive starts to happen further up the preamp dial ... so instead of getting overdrive at about 5 ... it will happen at 7.