How You Practice

[Dave T]

I have read and been told, when performing for an audience and make a mistake we should never stop but keep on playing. It is said most people won't notice but if you stop and correct it, or even worse stop and start over, everyone will notice and probably be annoyed.

At the same time I've read and been told, when we make a mistake in practice we should go back to at least the measure leading up to the problem area and go over it again and again until we've fixed the problem.

The problem I have is, in following the admonitions about practice I am programing myself to stop when I make a mistake. For now what I'm doing is when I first start to practice a song I go through it in it's entirety, warts and all. I try to make a mental note of the mistakes and once I've played it all the way through I go back to the problem areas and work on those few measures.

I'm not entirely satisfied with what I'm doing so, I am curious how some of you deal with this.

Dave

[ericmeyer4]

I will do both. Stop and replay sections at first. Then when I am somewhat fluent in the piece I will switch and play it all the way through mistakes and all. I will keep a mental note of the sections that are difficult and replay those sections and finish out the piece again.

[Pitar]

I don't make mistakes. I only make opportunities to learn more.

[LewCanToo]

Originally Posted by Pitar

I don't make mistakes. I only make opportunities to learn more.

That's some Bob Ross philosophy.

[TBman]

I'm a steel string player, but I mostly practice songs at a pace where there are zero mistakes. Going too fast just teaches fast mistakes. Play through the mistake if you are doing the whole song. If there is a section that gives me trouble, I will just practice that section.... very slowly until the mistake disappears. Sometimes I have to make little improvs using the section that is causing the problem to get over it.

[Bikewer]

This is the great advantage of jazz.... No mistakes.

Just...."Improvisations that didn't work out quite as well as you'd have liked."

I remember someone saying... "If you hit a bad note, do it again. Then they'll think it was on purpose."

Or this exchange between Chet Atkins and Les Paul during thier first collaboration...

Paul.... "That was great, print it!'

Atkins.... (Who thought they were rehearsing...) "But...What about all the clams?"

Paul...."People will think we're human."

[dkstott]

I was given great advice, that when practicing you do need to work on minimizing mistakes by focusing on trouble areas.

BUT you also have to be able to play the song complete.

If you are going to perform or doing open mic nights, you have learn how to keep going when mistakes happen. The audience wants you to succeed & will rarely notice a mistake if you continue smoothly.

Even the pro's make mistakes on nightly basis!!

Yeah, you keep going in performance. Even helps to repeat the mistake next time around. DO NOT STOP!

[ombudsman]

Good question.

My usual approaches are that if I am playing at home from a book or score, I will normally back up. But I might go further back than just a bar or two , so I can try the whole section again in context, which is a more realistic way to know if you've solved the problem.

But when I get something to the point that I'm trying to play through the whole thing, then I play through mistakes.

At band practice, I always try to get the band to play through mistakes. Dealing with them without trainwrecking is a skill that can only be practiced by doing it. I think that skill also makes you a better improvisor as well as you have to quickly look for a new way to solve an unexpected problem without dropping the rhythm. Being able to drop in and out of improv mode (rather than only doing it when you knew it was coming) is important. It can even lead to accidental improvements to an arrangement.

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench in here - typing teachers sometimes say that if you are repeating a mistake, one thing you can try is to deliberately type the mistake rather than the correct version, several times. Then, it will be easier to do it the correct way.

I love that this is counterintuitive, but also seems to work (for me at least), and it suggests things about the process of learning. It may be that doing this helps define a separate neural pathway for the mistake allowing the first one for the correct version to be modified.

[815C]

I only made a mistake once - it was in 1987. I thought I'd played a wrong note, but actually it was the right note. Other than that, I played everything perfectly, every time.

Happy April 1st

[Pitar]

Originally Posted by 815C

I only made a mistake once - it was in 1987. I thought I'd played a wrong note, but actually it was the right note. Other than that, I played everything perfectly, every time.

Happy April 1st

Hmmm, mine was also in 1977 but it only took me 5 years to realize it. Happy 4/1 bakatcha.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Dave T

I have read and been told, when performing for an audience and make a mistake we should never stop but keep on playing. It is said most people won't notice but if you stop and correct it, or even worse stop and start over, everyone will notice and probably be annoyed.

At the same time I've read and been told, when we make a mistake in practice we should go back to at least the measure leading up to the problem area and go over it again and again until we've fixed the problem.

The problem I have is, in following the admonitions about practice I am programing myself to stop when I make a mistake. For now what I'm doing is when I first start to practice a song I go through it in it's entirety, warts and all. I try to make a mental note of the mistakes and once I've played it all the way through I go back to the problem areas and work on those few measures.

I'm not entirely satisfied with what I'm doing so, I am curious how some of you deal with this.

Dave

To me, playing in a band is a very different thing than performing solo, and when performing solo, having a framework for each tune that I can do whatever within is very different from having to play something note for note perfect as somebody else wrote or arranged it.

For me, there is a lot of freedom playing in a band because I always seem to be playing a mixture of chords and leads, filling in around everybody else. There is no such thing as a "mistake" unless I am playing entirely in a wrong key. Hit a sour note? Just keep going, a half step away is always a right note. So, no problems there.

Playing solo where I set up my own arrangement as more of a framework (lead sheet), I am doing different things every time I play it. As with the band, a "good" note is only a half step away from a "bad" note, and repeating that same thing again makes it become "believable".

If I have to play solo and play some arrangement note for note exactly, then a mistake is an awful thing because anything that deviates from what is on the sheet of paper is a mistake and would stick out like the proverbial sore thumb (especially if the audience has heard this performance many times before as would be the case with classical guitar), and all you can do is keep going and hope everybody either didn't notice or forgot by the time you finish. I have never liked doing this sort of playing. It is way too restrictive.

In the practice room, you will want to be able to stop and work on something until it is smooth. Most folks seem to be able to do things differently in performance from what they do in the practice room. I honestly don't know how anyone can grow as a musician otherwise.

Tony

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Most folks seem to be able to do things differently in performance from what they do in the practice room.

Tony

My experience in several fields is quite different. As the saying from sports goes, "you play the way you practice." That's why I'm trying to find a way to practice that doesn't reinforce the "stopping to fix it", which then becomes the default reaction to a mistake.

Dave

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Dave T

My experience in several fields is quite different. As the saying from sports goes, "you play the way you practice." That's why I'm trying to find a way to practice that doesn't reinforce the "stopping to fix it", which then becomes the default reaction to a mistake.

Dave

I don't know how to address this problem. I have played both professionally and informally in an "amateur" capacity. I have read quite a bit written by professional classical guitar players and those of other instruments. All say what I said - they will use their practice time to go over rough spots, and consider a performance to be a completely different sort of enterprise.

In performance, we can't just stop in the middle. It is a skill we learn to keep going and recover as smoothly as possible.

I honestly don't know how a person would practice without being to stop, play really slowly through a passage etc.

So, there really isn't anything I can add to this discussion. I am truly sorry because I would love to be of at least some help. I mean that. I do sincerely hope somebody can post a solution for you.

Edit: Maybe this will help. A technique I read somewhere from a famous classical guitarist for preparing for a performance is to practice the performance every day/night at the time the performance will occur, running through all the pieces without stopping. This is to be done for perhaps a week leading up to the performance. This is when the "practicing" stops and performance preparation begins. Maybe this is closer to your sports quote.


Tony

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Edit: Maybe this will help. A technique I read somewhere from a famous classical guitarist for preparing for a performance is to practice the performance every day/night at the time the performance will occur, running through all the pieces without stopping. This is to be done for perhaps a week leading up to the performance. This is when the "practicing" stops and performance preparation begins. Maybe this is closer to your sports quote.


Tony

This is quite effective, and I was about to suggest it to Dave after seeing his last post.
Some people go to extremes, like dressing up and performing at the same time and so on as you suggest, but it's not necessary.
I call it "virtual practice", and differentiate from normal practice in the following way:
In normal practice, you can go about it as you want, i.e. stopping, or going through then going back, slow/fast, scales, arpeggios etc...whatever floats your boat.
In virtual, or "pretend" practice, you actually act as if you are going to be performing. This can include walking in to your practice area guitar in hand, smiling to an imaginary audience, even talking about the piece you're about to be performing for them (pets are great for this.) . And then, gathering yourself, just like you would expect yourself to be doing, and then launching into the piece, start to finish. As best you can, no stopping.
It might sound silly, but it works. If you do it right, you might even experience some butterflies or get a little clammy. It's a great way to really flush out the problem spots, if there are any.
If you feel uneasy about this kind of stage acting, you might consider just recording yourself. The little red light has a very similar effect.
The only caveat I would add is:
Don't do this with pieces that you are just learning, or half-know, or haven't memorized. This kind of pretend practice is best suited only for the material you have under your belt.
No, it's not a total substitute for an actual performance. But, it can be a very effective practice tool if you go about it the right way.