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  #1  
Old 11-05-2014, 06:51 AM
uposb4 uposb4 is offline
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Default Stumped!

Folks, I need your help. I Picked up an Epiphone Wildkat in used but mint condition. The problem is the blasted thing will not stay in tune. I've tried everything but cannot get it to stay in tune. Here's what I've done; Changed strings (several times), Replaced the bridge with a roller bridge, Replaced the nut with a Tusq graphite nut. Replaced the Tuners with a new set of Grover's. Removed the Bigsby and replaced with a trap/tailpiece. It still goes out of tune like a new set of strings stretching. I just don't get it. I have a dozen guitars and have never had one do this. The neck heel is set good and tight, the neck is straight and the truss works as should. Intonation is right on. The guitar looks, plays and sounds great and I hate to give up on it. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks.
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Old 11-05-2014, 07:09 AM
stanron stanron is offline
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Two things occur to me. First is that a loose nut can lead to tuning problems, easily fixed with a small dab of glue. The second would be insufficient windings on the tuners.

A bridge that can moove from side to side can also give tuning problems but the wildcat picture I've seen has the same kind of bridge as the Gibson tuneamatic, adjustable height and individual string intonation but on fixed posts. Pictures might help.
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Old 11-05-2014, 07:26 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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If the nut slots are too tight, strings take more time to equalize tension on either side. This can lead to a problem like you state.

Do you stretch your strings fully after replacing them?? This is very important.

Just to get it straight, your guitar now does NOT have a tremolo on it...??

EDIT - I read too quickly. Missed the part about the Bigsby, so edited my post to reflect this.
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Old 11-05-2014, 07:42 AM
Arthur Blake Arthur Blake is offline
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Default Ball ends toward headstock

Quote:
Originally Posted by uposb4 View Post
Epiphone Wildkat in used but mint condition. The problem is the blasted thing will not stay in tune.
Just checking -- are you installing the string ball ends toward the headstock?

That is, the strings wrap - ball ends do not install from the back, but from the front and then wrap under and over to begin.
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:31 AM
Frank Ford Frank Ford is offline
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Insulting as it may be to some, there's a question I always have to ask because of the high proportion of players who don't know or obey the rule:

Do you ALWAYS tune well below the note and then UP to it?

Depending on the instrument, there may be sensitivity to the potential imbalance of string tension across the nut as you tune. SO, you MUST always tune UP to any note in EVERY situation. You can't adjust a tuner down pitch without risking tuning instability.

This is a particularly nasty issue with mandolins and other high tension fretted instruments, and it's why you hear and see players tune down and then up at each adjustment of pitch.

Last edited by Frank Ford; 11-06-2014 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:21 AM
uposb4 uposb4 is offline
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The Bigsby is off, I now have a trapezoid tailpiece. I'm not a trem guy anyway. The bridge is a gibson style tun-o-matic with roller saddles. I'm confident in the string winding on the tuners, As i listed earlier, I don't and have never had this problem with any guitar I've owned since 1979. I always go low and then up to take slack out of the string. I've checked for signs of repairs to the heel and neck/head and there are none. It's as if the strings are always stretching or the tuners are slipping, all of them but I'm sure that's not the case. I'm at work now but I will post a pic this evening.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:34 AM
arie arie is offline
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exactly how are you winding the strings on the posts?

-intonation is on so nothing is moving.
-tremolo is gone and replaced with a fixed tailpiece. it's not bending is it?
-tuners are swapped out.
-nut is swapped out and i assume it works without pinging?
-strings swapped out many times.

you've replaced virtually everything on the guitar but the guitar itself and yet you still have the same problem?
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:01 AM
redir redir is offline
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You need help from a psychologist not a luthier
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:11 AM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uposb4 View Post
The Bigsby is off, I now have a trapezoid tailpiece. I'm not a trem guy anyway. The bridge is a gibson style tun-o-matic with roller saddles. I'm confident in the string winding on the tuners, As i listed earlier, I don't and have never had this problem with any guitar I've owned since 1979. I always go low and then up to take slack out of the string. I've checked for signs of repairs to the heel and neck/head and there are none. It's as if the strings are always stretching or the tuners are slipping, all of them but I'm sure that's not the case. I'm at work now but I will post a pic this evening.
Again, I'd suggest to check that the nut isn't pinching the strings.

Is the bridge fixed, or floating. If it is floating, is it moving slightly when you play?
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:15 PM
jonfields45 jonfields45 is offline
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If the pickups are too close to the strings, it will never intonate or play in-tune. Jon
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:17 PM
uposb4 uposb4 is offline
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Jon, That's one thing that did cross my mind. The bridge P90 is high. too high and non-adjustable. Its a hot P90 also and I was wondering if the magnetic pull could be affecting the strings.
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:20 PM
uposb4 uposb4 is offline
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...for that matter the neck pup is high also. Both are dog-ears. There's very little space between the B pup and strings. I'm going to order a set of thin covers and go from there.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:48 PM
redir redir is offline
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Pickups that are too close will mess with intonation but not tuning the way you described it 'like stretching new strings.' That implies that when ever the guitars go out of tune you then have to tune up again till the strings loosen again.
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:25 PM
punkybub punkybub is offline
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I hesitate to mention this, but I've run into guitars that just won't stay in tune no matter what's done to them. I witnessed a friend destroy an '80s Epiphone electric by bashing it on the garage floor because he had severe, unfixable tuning problems with it. Not the best choice, but pretty entertaining.

That said, physically stretching the strings at least a few times (grab it and pull up and wiggle it) might help. And if you're hearing any squeaks/creaks or noise at all from the nut, then the slots are too small.

Good luck - sounds like you're doing exactly what needs to be done to fix it.

I love acoustic guitars !
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