GB shen 100 vs Roland AC-60 vs ultrasound ag50ds4

bjpark · #1 12-20-2007, 11:09 PM

im looking to upgrade to a new amp and im looking for your help (especially if you've compared all these amps).

im looking for a clear and natural sound that isnt too crunchy, but also has a warm tone and smooth reverb. my options are the genz benz shen 100, fender acoustasonic 30 dsp, roland ac-60, or the ultrasound ag-50ds3. i've detailed my experiences with these amps below if you'd like "to crawl around inside my head."

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GENZ BENZ SHENANDOAH 100
having read so many great forum reviews on genz benz amps, i recently played my '06 414ce(no es upgrade) through a used GB shen 100 offered at an incredibly low price. however, im not sure that i loved the sound. the first thing i noticed was the hum coming from the unit with the volume half way and the EQ set flat (the amp wasnt properly grounded, but the hum was still unusually loud). when i started playing, it sounded less like a natural tone and had more of a honk to it. it wasnt a buttery/smokey tone, it was more of a distorted sound focused on bass/mid frequencies that didnt have enough "twinkle" even with treble adjustments. the tweeters didnt seem too helpful because the off setting/ II setting only seemed to make the sound more muffled. i have to say that the bass was incredibly impressive and enunciated and the 100 watt power + the size of the speaker easily filled the living room i was playing in. i also enjoyed the alesis modeling. however, i'd have to say that i was disappointed that the amp did not sound as impressive as i had hoped. still, the price is really impressive; less than a fender acoustasonic jr dsp!

FENDER ACOUSTASONIC JR dsp
i played this amp in a guitar center several times and really liked the tone coming from the amp. strumming-wise, it had sort of a smokey/smooth tone that produced a really beautifully rich and warm sound; the tone really filled the room even though it had only 30w. i really liked the sound and it had effects to spare. however, it didnt really produce a completely natural tone from my guitar. it had a great smooth timbre, but it lacked the crystal clarity that i was looking for. still, a great sounding amp.

ROLAND AC-60
i played this amp at guitar center as well. i was really impressed with what i heard in terms of clarity and natural tone. i could barely distinguish the sound coming from my 414ce's soundport and the tone coming from the amp. when i tuned the E down to a low C for some slap rhythms, i was surprised by the depth and clarity of the bass. even when i turned the EQ treb/bass on a higher setting, there was barely hum added to the amp's sound. the modeling and effects were as expected of roland's famous digitalization: the reverb wasnt too boomy or overwhelming and the chorus added a nice overtone (although i couldnt manage to have delay and reverb on at the same time, which i hardly use). i also really liked the small size, free carrying case, and lightweight portability. the one thing i'd gripe with is the size of the 2 speakers of the amp. they were a bit on the small side, so they tended to concentrate sound in one portion of the room rather than filling the whole room with sound. still, a really solid, well-rounded amp worthy of being in taylor's es dvd!

ULTRASOUND AG-50DS3
i have no opinion on this amp. i've been looking for a decent soundclip and couldnt find one (can anyone help?). from what i hear, this amp's tone resembles the roland ac-60, but does better since the speakers are larger and fills the room more easily. has anyone compared this to a genzbenz or the rolandac60? if so, how do they compare in terms of tone?

couple variables concerning the genzbenz:
- the amp is being sold used (15 months old); for whatever reason, the amp may not produce the same sound as a new unit
- my guitar recently started buzzing intermittently near the bridge and this buzzing gets more intense when i play a b-note

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thanks for reading this long one. best wishes on all your musical efforts and happy holidays! :-)

Godbless,
Brian

SteveS · #2 12-21-2007, 12:11 AM

I haved played them all. I would go with the Ultrasound.

rmyAddison · #3 12-21-2007, 06:22 AM

There was something wrong with that Genz Benz: buzzing, adding the tweeter made it "more muffled"? Doesn't make sense, the amp was messed up, maybe indicated by the super cheap price.........??

ljguitar · #4 12-21-2007, 06:40 AM

Hi Brian...
When I did the ''amp search'' several years back:

GenzBenz Shanendoah sounded like my guitar played through an amp.
Fender sounded a bit cheezy compared to the rest of the lot...a bit gnarly.
Roland sounded ok, just not like my guitar.
UltraSounds sounded like my guitar only louder.

In fact when I had played the GenzBenz for about 15 minutes and plugged into the UltraSound, I thought I didn't have it turned up because it sounded so natural. I kept turning it up, and then realized it had quite a bit of volume coming out of it and that it sounded like what I wanted it to...I just had not heard an amp short of the AER sound that natural...especially not for the price.

I don't think recordings of guitars through amps are a good way to judge them because the natural sound output of the guitar mixed with the amp in the room mixes in the ears to create our ''sound.''

That combined effect is not captured by recording the amp, unless maybe one recorded the guitar and amp in a room together with an external mic and not from the line output of the amp. Even then, it would need to be a mic placed to reproduce what the ear/brain hears.

Hope this helps...

rmyAddison · #5 12-21-2007, 07:28 AM

I think pickups/electronics play a big part too and am not surprised different people have different results/opinions.

My amp quest results (using Aura equipped Martins) were:

AER - outstanding, but not good for vocals and guitar (independent channel features lacking), fantastic for just guitar.

Genz Benz - best of what I heard, Shen Pro with tube/fet preamp is great for vocal/guitar, 12" driver has real low end, compression tweeter is soft and smooth. My guitars sounded the most natural though the Pro and vocals were by far the best using some tube preamp and a decent condensor.

Fishman - very clean, maybe to the point of being brittle, not a lot of low end, but a very nice amp.

Ultrasound - very good, not quite the sound and features of the GB, excellent for the price.

Fender, Marshall, Roland, Crate - to my ears they all have a bit of coloration, especially the Fender and Marshall, their expertice is still in electric amps.

10 different people will have 10 different opinions, the good news is that is because there are a lot of pretty good acoustics amps these days!

vti814ce · #6 12-21-2007, 07:59 AM

Hi Brian, it must be Christmas because alot of people are asking about amps!

Of all that you mentioned the only two I would spend money on as brand new would be the GB and the Ultrasound. I have messed around with the usual suspects at GC that you mention and honestly they all color the sound of every acoustic electric I plugged in, way too much.To that you mentioned IMO arent even nice sounding at all. They all amplify, but not all will accurately reproduce the natural sound of your guitar. I wont say any amp is perfect but the GB and the ultrasound are really pretty special. I see you have aTaylor, go the Taylor web site where they talk about ES and amplification and see what they are running. Ultrasound's are vey nice and warm sounding, not perfect, but closer than the others you mention at accurately reproducing the natural sound of your 414 in my opinion..

Sammy

jamswu · #7 12-21-2007, 09:07 AM

I don't have a lot to say about these amps, since I'm also doing my research right now. The Ultrasound really appeals to me so far.

I have used the Roland AC60. My main gripe with that amp is that the XLR out gave our sound techs lots of problems. Too hot, distortion, or static. Could have been a problem with that particular amp though. I also didn't like how it sounded with my guitar, which uses a K&K pickup system which typically sounds really good in whatever I plug into.

Best of luck!

Michael T · #8 12-21-2007, 11:35 AM

Obviously I am pretty biased as I just found the sound I was looking for with the features I thought were important for the dollar range the amps you are considering. If you haven't pulled the trigger yet set one of the Fishman performers (130 watt PA/acoustic combo) up for comparison also. The 48V phantom power , XLR's out/DI mix, stereo blend, basic effects and independent channel functions with phase and feedback control makes these an outstanding package. My AG50 is a great amp, don't get me wrong, as is my Troubadour. They just didn't have the voice over capabilities and additional output I needed to get. For the dollars you are considering, comparing one of these would be worth your time.

bjpark · #9 12-21-2007, 06:05 PM

thanks for the feedback guys, keep em coming!

i was hesitant about the GB and now i'm tempted to re-test it... when i tested it last time, i had everything set on flat before i started testing highs and lows. anyone have any recommendations for the settings (in terms of producing a warm, natural, clear tone)?

flagstaffcharli · #10 12-22-2007, 12:50 AM

This is a great thread! Thanks! I'm starting to think about an amp myself...

Antz_Marchin · #11 12-22-2007, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

There was something wrong with that Genz Benz: buzzing, adding the tweeter made it "more muffled"? Doesn't make sense, the amp was messed up, maybe indicated by the super cheap price.........??

Absolutely.....mine wasn't super-cheap by any means and it is the one I chose. Been serving me well for solo acoustic gigs with a 914 w/K&K PWM and vocals with a very transparent tone and no noises. It's also been great as my acoustic amp for using my GS with my 3 piece band and easily keeps up with any PA I use on vocals (check mine is a Shen 200, just noticed you said 100). Either way, GB is a great amp.

rmyAddison · #12 12-22-2007, 06:11 AM

bjpark,

Test a different Shenandoah, you described a mal-functioning amp. You still may prefer something else, that's fine, but audition a known good amp.

I do not use much EQ with my Shen Pro, treble and bass flat and a slight notch in the mids, but I am also using Aura systems and you have the expression, so that will make a difference. I leave the tweeter on, not off or cut. Hopefully some Taylor folks can tell you their settings.

Nelson · #13 12-22-2007, 07:30 PM

Just got home from an afternoon at church noodling around through the PA. Tried several setups and found that the two best were with my 514ce through my Ultrasound DI Plus to the house and also my 414ce with the '07 ES upgrade through my Ultrasound AG50DS2 to the house. I tried both direct to the house, both through my 8 channel mixer to the house, both through my buddies Roland AC60 to the house. I found my DS2 was the best and my DI plus right there with it. all I needed to do was to dip the mids to 9 0'clock on th board and nothing else. Though I will admit that the reverb and chorus on the AC60 were very nice I use Boss pedals which are the same thing.

I'm going to have to stay with the Ultrasound. Just can't find anything to change to that I like.

MikesPC1 · #14 12-23-2007, 04:24 PM

My two pence worth(uk)is that the crucial thing here is how they perform in conjunction with the es on your 614.I concur with your original thoughts,that the Roland AC complements the Taylor ES.

RustyAxe · #15 12-23-2007, 04:43 PM

I traded in a Fender Acoustasonic DSP 30 two weeks ago for a Roland AC60. I'm not sorry that I did. I like the sound, of course, but the size and weight are definite positives as well. The Roland seems to be quite a bit louder than the Fender, too ... with no distortion. I like that the Roland can be mounted on a speaker stand (it has the jack for the pole in the base of the amp). I run to mixer with the 1/4" line out, and that works fine (but I'll try the XLR now just to be sure).