K & K Trinity vs. Taylor

[Lewguitar]

Getting ready install the K & K Trinity Western in my Taylor 814C and soon there'll be no turning back...

But I'm curious if anyone has compared some of the Taylors with factory installed pickups to the K & K pickup systems.

Guess I'm hoping for some reassurance that I'm doing the right thing! LOL!

Lew

[dylanheeg]

I don't think I've ever heard any negativety towards the K&K products on the AGF.....they make great products.....and they reproduce the acoustic sound very well

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Lewguitar

Getting ready install the K & K Trinity Western in my Taylor 814C and soon there'll be no turning back...

But I'm curious if anyone has compared some of the Taylors with factory installed pickups to the K & K pickup systems.

Guess I'm hoping for some reassurance that I'm doing the right thing! LOL!

Lew

The factory installed ES is a dual source system (mag and twin sensor dynamic SBT) with internal preamp/blender and rudimentary eq. The K&K Trinity is a dual source (three sensor piezo/ceramic SBT and internal mic) with a preamp/blender and rudimentary eq. The two systems will sound different from each other. Generally, the ES has an accurate dynamic response and a smooth and pleasing tone. The K&K blend is a bit less dynamic and offers a rather accurate and detailed tone. Neither preamp/eq is anything to write home about, and both are often improved with additional processing.

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

The factory installed ES is a dual source system (mag and twin sensor dynamic SBT) with internal preamp/blender and rudimentary eq. The K&K Trinity is a dual source (three sensor piezo/ceramic SBT and internal mic) with a preamp/blender and rudimentary eq. The two systems will sound different from each other. Generally, the ES has an accurate dynamic response and a smooth and pleasing tone. The K&K blend is a bit less dynamic and offers a rather accurate and detailed tone. Neither preamp/eq is anything to write home about, and both are often improved with additional processing.

I do have a DTAR Mama Bear that I've been using with my Takamines. I'll try that with the K&K but I was hoping not to need it. What other processor might be better? Thanks, lew

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Lewguitar

I do have a DTAR Mama Bear that I've been using with my Takamines. I'll try that with the K&K but I was hoping not to need it. What other processor might be better? Thanks, lew

The Mama Bear is not designed to be used with a K&K or a K&K/internal mic blend. However, when I ran a K&K mini signal through a Mama Bear it sounded pretty good, although not as nice as a K&K mini and interal mic trough an appropriate pre/eq.

If you stay with K&K products completely, you'll get a K&K mini and K&K internal mic (aka "Silver Bullet") and you will have two K&K preamp/eq choices, either the external pre or the internal pre. Both have set and forget gain and three-band eq for each source, and both have on the fly volume controls for each pickup. Overall, that's a good system and you should be able to dial up a decent SBT/internal mic "sound".

You can do a bit better if you were to do two things. First, forego the Silver Bullet internal mic, using instead either a Joe Mills internal mic or a AKG 416L internal mic (or better yet the modified AKG 416L internal mic sold by Pendulum Audio). Second, forego the K&K preamp/eq and get a D-TAR Solstice. This setup will simply sound better and the Solstice offers several additional features (e.g., on the fly eq adjustements, ability to use external condenser mics, effects loop, inserts). This solution will cost several hundreds more than using just K&K products.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

First, forego the Silver Bullet internal mic, using instead either a Joe Mills internal mic or a AKG 416L internal mic (or better yet the modified AKG 416L internal mic sold by Pendulum Audio).

That modified AKG 416L is pricey! Where can you buy the "unmodified" version? I'm only finding the 516 - is that just a newer model? One review on Sweetwater says that it is harder to mount in a guitar than the 416.

Also, Joe Mills mics seem to be completely unavailable to buy new. If anyone knows of a place to get them, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Thanks!

[sdelsolray]

The unmodifed AKG mic:

AKG 416L

I've heard that Joe Mills isn't making any mics recently. Dunno if that's for good or temporary.

[Beagle1]

Originally Posted by Lewguitar

I do have a DTAR Mama Bear that I've been using with my Takamines. I'll try that with the K&K but I was hoping not to need it. What other processor might be better? Thanks, lew

If you already have a Mama Bear, then why not just install a DTAR Wavelength in your 814, since it is designed as the optimal front end for the Mama Bear?

I have a K&K Trinity in one of my Martin OM's, and I just put a Wavelength in another one of my OM's. I do like the natural sound of the Trinity, but you can't use too much of the mic once you get in a higher volume situation. If you're playing coffeehouse type gigs, the Trinity is a great system. But otherwise, the Wavelength sounds pretty darn good even without the Mama Bear.

[Doubleneck]

Better solution, if you already have a mama bear, sell it to me and use the proceeds to buy the stuff that you will need for the K&K
Steve

[MattM]

Maybe this will give you some confidence - if you click here and scroll down the page, you can hear a Taylor 914 with a K & K trinity system recorded direct, and also compare that to the same guitar with B-Band, Baggs, PUTW, Fishman, Sunrise, Schertler, and a couple of others...I know there are a lot of variables in these types of comparisons, but I every time I browse through this page, the 914 with the K&K really stands above the rest (if you need further assurance, listen to the 314CES...ouch!)

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptest.htm

[moo cow]

if assurance is what you are looking for, i sold my 714ce in order to get a "non-pickup" GS and put a trinity system in it. blows it away to my ear!!

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Better solution, if you already have a mama bear, sell it to me and use the proceeds to buy the stuff that you will need for the K&K
Steve

Sure! I only bought the Mama Bear to use onstage with my Takamine EF-341SC guitars. I just sold one Tak and now I have the other one on Ebay too, and when it sells I won't need the Mama Bear. It's like brand new...just a couple of months old. I was going to put it on Ebay too in a couple of days. But go ahead and email me: [email protected]

Let's talk!

Lew

[Lewguitar]

See, here's how it all went:

I bought the Taylor about 13 years ago and put a Sunrise soundhole pickup in it and used it as my stage guitar.

Then I decided the Taylor was to nice of a guitar to have a soundhole pickup clamped to the top, so I removed it and bought two Takamine EF-341SC's to use onstage instead. One for standard tuning and one for open tuning.

But the Tak's sounded a little to brittle and sizzley so I bought a Mama Bear to run them through and with the Mama Bear they sound pretty good through my SWR Cali Blonde amp.

But I've never been 100% comfortable with the way the Taks play...especially for fingerpicking...the string spacing is a little to narrow at the bridge and at the nut. They almost play to easy...kind of like an electric guitar. Great for strumming but not so good for fingerpicking.

Recently I bought a Collings OM-2HA for my home, songwriting and recording guitar and that freed up the Taylor again for stage use so I decided to install the K&K system in the Taylor, use it onstage again, and sell the Takamine's.

Lew