Sunrise Pickups

[Compurocker]

Is it impossible to get one of these things? They sound amazing and no alterations whatsoever need to be made to the guitar. I know they are expensive but man what a beautiful thing to have a pickup which mounts to your soundhole which is nicely protected with felt causing absolutely no damage and you run the cable out the endpin hole! has anyone here used one? Fill me in? How did you use it? Preamp or no? Is a preamp built in or would I need a beltclip deal or a bigger unit to set on my amp?

[DMZ]

1. They're still available. In a 1 second Google search I found:
http://www.elderly.com/brand/PUA_sunrise.html

2. I used to play with one. I use a L.R. Baggs M1 passive now and like it better. It happens to clamp in the same way as the Sunrise.

3. If you get one you will need a good pre-amp. There are so many. I used a Baggs when I had one. That is search number 2 for you.

4. You absolutely have to scoop out the Mid-range frequency with a Mag pickup.

By the way search Sunrise on the forum. You'll likely see quite a few threads. Hope this helps some.

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by Compurocker

Is it impossible to get one of these things? They sound amazing and no alterations whatsoever need to be made to the guitar. I know they are expensive but man what a beautiful thing to have a pickup which mounts to your soundhole which is nicely protected with felt causing absolutely no damage and you run the cable out the endpin hole! has anyone here used one? Fill me in? How did you use it? Preamp or no? Is a preamp built in or would I need a beltclip deal or a bigger unit to set on my amp?

I have two and also have two of the Sunrise preamps. I used to use one on my Lowden and one in my Taylor Leo Kotke 12 string, but I no longer have either of those guitars and I was thinking of putting them on Ebay. I do think they are the absolute best sounding soundhole pickup I've ever used and the Sunrise Preamp must be used with them, IMO. The Sunrise Preamp provides the perfect EQ, IMO, to bring out the very best tone from the Sunrise pickup and the tone without the preamp is good but with the preamp the tone is on a whole other higher level. I've never been able to get the same EQ and tone by plugging the pickup directly into the board, using the EQ on the PA board, and not using the preamp. It's like the preamp is the other half of the Sunrise pickup and it's a must, IMO. Lyle Lovett uses the Sunrise (I've seen it in his D28) and he has said that to his ears the tone is more acoustic than any other system he's used.

[erivel]

Lewguitar:

Which preamp did you use: The S-B1/S-B2 or the tube interface S-TI? If you plug the Sunrise into the S-B1 preamp can you go directly into a Baggs Para DI to eq it?

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Lewguitar

I do think they are the absolute best sounding soundhole pickup I've ever used and the Sunrise Preamp must be used with them, IMO. The Sunrise Preamp provides the perfect EQ, IMO, to bring out the very best tone from the Sunrise pickup and the tone without the preamp is good but with the preamp the tone is on a whole other higher level. I've never been able to get the same EQ and tone by plugging the pickup directly into the board, using the EQ on the PA board, and not using the preamp. It's like the preamp is the other half of the Sunrise pickup and it's a must, IMO. Lyle Lovett uses the Sunrise (I've seen it in his D28) and he has said that to his ears the tone is more acoustic than any other system he's used.

The Sunrise preamps (there are two - one solid state and one tube) are simple preamps. No eq, etc. Flat response. Basic wire with gain. There are many preamps that do the same job, some better, some not as good.

Although the Sunrise needs a preamp (every passive pickup needs a preamp), one does not need a Sunrise preamp to make the Sunrise pickup work well.

I've tried both of the Sunrise preamps. The solid state is OK. The tube version is nice. When I owned and used a Sunrise I ran it through either a solid state Pendulum SPS-1 or a tube Pendulum MDP-1a. Either smoked the Sunrise preamps.

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by neilfan855

Lewguitar:

Which preamp did you use: The S-B1/S-B2 or the tube interface S-TI? If you plug the Sunrise into the S-B1 preamp can you go directly into a Baggs Para DI to eq it?

I couldn't afford the tube driven unit like Richard Thompson uses...I went with the solid state unit. I plug my guitar into it and it straight into the board. However, I have done some gigs where the sound person insisted I plug into his direct box. I always insisted that I first plug into the Sunrise preamp and then plug that into his direct box and it always sounded just great. Although the sound person always tweaks things at the board, I think two EQ boxes (the Sunrise plus ???) would be redundant. But maybe not...I just never needed to do that myself.

[Lewguitar]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

The Sunrise preamps (there are two - one solid state and one tube) are simple preamps. No eq, etc. Flat response. Basic wire with gain. There are many preamps that do the same job, some better, some not as good.

Although the Sunrise needs a preamp (every passive pickup needs a preamp), one does not need a Sunrise preamp to make the Sunrise pickup work well.

I've tried both of the Sunrise preamps. The solid state is OK. The tube version is nice. When I owned and used a Sunrise I ran it trough either a solid state Pendulum SPS-1 or a tube Pendulum MDP-1a. Either smoked the Sunrise preamps.

I sure could be wrong about the preamp including EQ, but I will say that the tone of the pickup is dramatically different without the preamp. My guitars always sounded very different and not as good if I didn't use the Sunrise preamp and plugged them into a Direct Box and then tried to add EQ at the board. I always ended up including the Sunrise preamp and plugging it into the direct box the sound person provided.

Lew

[ljguitar]

Hi Jeff...
Funny, most of the pros who used them 15 years ago and swore-by-them seem to have sworn them off in the past decade moving to dual source systems.

I see them out there now and then, but they definitely produce a magnetic (electric) sound compared to an acoustic sound found in modern pickups.

[Lewguitar]

Here's a nice article about the Sunrise and how Lyle Lovett uses it. According to the author Lyle uses a Demeter preamp.

http://www.accentonmusic.com/article_4.html

[masterquacker]

I did a series of short 30 second test recordings with a Taylor 314es Auditorium Grand w/ ES system, and a Yairi DY71 Dreadnaught w/ a Sunrise and an I-beam. I have both a Boss AD5 acoustic pre and a Sunrise SB1 pre. I'll post them in the order which I thought sounded best from top to bottom. You certainly might think differently and that's cool. That's why I made the recordings, so you could get a rough idea of what each pickup and pre sounded like in different combinations. Obviously it would have been nice to have been able to use the same guitar for all the recordings, but impractical, and even somewhat impossible. Since the Expression System uses a magnetic pickup hidden under the fretboard near to the soundhole, placing another magnetic pickup like the sunrise nearby will get some nasal toned phase cancellation happening. I tried it yesterday with that Baggs M1 I sold. The M1 sounds a lot like the Sunrise. I'd say the M1 has better highs, whereas the Sunrise has better lows and a bit more umph overall. The M1 likes to feedback more too. But at least you get a 5th fret harmonic with it. The Sunrise loses that harmonic, which is one reason a lot of guys use a Sunrise in conjuction with an under the saddle pickup or a mini mic. In my case I use the Ibeam which works a lot like a mini mic.

ES through the Boss AD5

ES through the Sunrise SB1

Sunrise and Ibeam together through the Boss AD5

Surise by itself through the Boss AD5

Sunrise by itself through the SB1

I-beam by itself through the Boss AD5

I-beam by itself through the SB1

Since the SB1 is a mono unit it wasn't possible to run both the Sunrise and I-beam pickups through it at the same time. I was able to use the 'body' control on the Boss which does indeed help the guitar to attain a more natural sound. (I wonder if the Aura is copying this function to some degree). I had the upper mids pulled back a little for all pickups except the I-beam which is already a very dull sounding pickup as is, although it really does sound a lot like a microphone (just not a good one). You'll notice that the pull-offs barely rang out at all on the I-beam. One problem with all guitars is that the 3rd and 4th strings are never as loud as the others. Even a well ballanced guitar like my Taylor still isn't perfect in this area, and it's been my experience with every pickup I've ever owned (and I've had a bunch) that pickups will exagerate this problem. Even with the pole pieces pulled way up on those strings they won't be loud enough. The ES system is the best I've played when it comes to this, but it would be nice if they could get those strings a little louder yet.

I gotta go, nice meeting everyone.

BTW, I'll sell this SB1 for 50 bucks if anyone wants it. I just listed it at Craig's List today. I've had it a long time but have barely used it. It looks new and has about a 4-year battery life! (Don't ask me how).

[Compurocker]

Looks like Sunrise is out. I am either going with the K&K Pure Western Mini or the PUTW #54. Then comes the Preamp and Amplifier...