Jam Groups and running one--what are the problems?

[thestubbyone]

I have been getting together jam group for a few years and play in other bigger jams. I like to get together 6 or so varied type of musicians (thats all my house can accommodate). At first I tried to form and stick to one group of jammers I could play with on a weekly basis. But that turned out pretty difficult to do because everybody had different things to do on any schedule, so I collected names of other interested musicians and kind of had an open jam limiting it to 6. First come first served. Well I ran into some problems particularly with musicians who played a lot on their own but not in a group. What I am talking about here is dominance and taking over the group by excessive conversation and control of how the group would work. I have jammed in small group for a number of years before this and I know that jammers dont like to be controlled and I try to give everyone their chance. But when I see one person take over the group and decide to do one song after another and begin criticizing how the group is run, I have to step in and correct the situation. Nobody else will if its at your house! But then I have another musician who sees it the other way and thinks I am a control freak. Now I usually play with an invitee at least once by myself to see how he or she does and if its a good fit. I had this one guitarist, who was an excellent lead guitar and good at riffs but poor singing and could only do a song with backing tracks or kareoke playing in background. He never played in a group but invited many times people to come over to his house, they did once and never came back. Well I found he was very dominant in conversation and action when I played with him I thought better move on. But he called me back and begged to come over to my acoustic jam (he played acoustic electric) I told him he could provided he didnt walk all over the singing that any one did and just listen and do riffs and instrmentals when they occurred. Basically just sit and observe and get the feel for playing with other live musicians. He said yes absolutely, but what he did was the opposite! He took it over trying to play songs he couldn't complete and decided he needed my wifi password so I assume he download some of his backing tracks and kareoke. I said no, and one of the players took his side! whoa! Both of them are on my **** list now! What I did by allowing somebody who I didnt think would fit, was lose another musician who I was perfectly fine with and had played many years with. Lesson learned I guess.

[Steve DeRosa]

There's an old proverb, "Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown..."

Unfortunately, such things are going to happen whenever you have a couple of fairly strong players with disproportionately bloated egos in the mix: I've been in a few song circles/musical cooperatives, as well as a couple bands, where this was the case, and I also had a couple of real-deal A-list-quality jamming buddies (one of whom did road time with a major '60s R&R HOF act, the other who played with a multi-Grammy-winning CCM band) who were as down to earth as can be - those who really have the goods don't need to blow their own horn (pun intended). Quite frankly, I'm at an age and a point in my life where I don't need the headaches, the heartaches, and the heinieaches of running a group: I presently belong to three different musical organizations, under two directors, and I'm perfectly content to fit into the overall picture and offer the benefit of my 60+ years of experience when/if (and only when/if) called for and not before. My thought is that, unless you're looking to round up musicians for a specific time-sensitive project such as a civic or charitable event, cut your losses and be a follower for now: meet, connect, network, jam on others' home turf rather than your own - works for me, and as with everything else of value in this life you'll know when the right one[s] comes along...

[Chas007]

Wow, I was thinking about trying something similar but that doesn't sound like anything I want to get involved with.

[Mandobart]

It sounds like the host and some of the members of the jam could benefit from attending public jams in a public place where the basics of jam etiquette are explained and adhered to, before trying to launch a jam of their own.

I've been going to jams regularly in my area for over 16 years. I've never experienced the behavior the OP describes. No one is born knowing basic jam etiquette. If neither the host nor attendees are experienced in jams than I can see how it could become arbitrary and chaotic.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Chas007

Wow, I was thinking about trying something similar but that doesn't sound like anything I want to get involved with.

The Op is describing quite an unusual situation. I think that you would be fine trying something similar. Just follow the advice / experience folks are posting here.

[thestubbyone]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

The Op is describing quite an unusual situation. I think that you would be fine trying something similar. Just follow the advice / experience folks are posting here.

Quite true. I have played in a small jam group for years before covid and in large circle type jams and haven't encountered anything quite similar until now. But I will say the two large groups who are open to new players all the time have divergently different ways of handling such a situation. At one where estimated 30 musicians come to play of various skill levels its run by a very iron fisted woman. Get out of line, ie too loud play out of order etc, she puts you in your place quite fast. At the end we all have to stand up and play "God Bless America"! A very controlled situation but on the other hand very orderly and great sound system for the mics. I have met and connected with a few musicians there and dont have a problem with it. Now the other one which is the same type similar circle of jammers is controlled by a guy and girl. They dont make any issues in front of the group but later talk to the guy in private. I know this because I know someone they talked to and it pissed him off big time! If you play in enough different groups, particularly those that are open, I have a hard time beiieving others haven't seen some similar type of problem. If you just play in one group and especially if its not open, chances are that something like what happened to me won't happen if you are wise about who you invite.

[Robin, Wales]

I think that some of what you are saying is sort of to be expected.

If I start a song at a pub session, local jam or campfire etc there's a good chance that it will be "trashed" by folks joining in. You just have to go with it. If it happens to be a song that someone knows and plays themselves then they will play it their way and I'll have to adapt what I do because they can't.

Hell, I was playing at a concert on Friday night and the audience started to sing along to a song I was doing. You just have to adapt and embrace that it is now their song not yours and guide them through it.

My personal rule for jams is to only play/sing if I will be adding something to the mix. It is sort of the unwritten rule when jamming with good players. But I don't think that it is a rule that you can or should place on an open jam session. Because beginners would never play and those players without the skill to reflect would break the rule anyway.

A jam session is what it is. You just have to roll with it. Sometimes you get a great night that just comes together, and they are special memories.

[lowrider]

I've been attending jam group/song circles for a while now and I've been running one for about a year before covid, off and on through covid, and about a year since we got back full time.

I've never had the issues that are listed above. Maybe it's just because New Yorkers are so much nicer than any where else. The only issues I've had are one guy with a strong powerful voice who was singing over people when they were leading. I talked to him after the jam, and after that he kept to to a good level.

The other problem I had was when we returned last spring, we got a few people who just didn't practice their songs. It ruined the whole rhythm of there night. I sent out an email telling everyone that this is not the place to try a song for the first time. That I'm not expecting virtuosity but I do expect you to have a grasp of the song that you are trying to sing.

Those people must have not wanted to practice because non of them came back.

The hardest thing is to find a place to play. We used to play at the library and we were on the Calendar so people. Now we are at a meeting room in a park and we are word of mouth. I put an ad on CL and I have a FB page, but mostly friends bring friends.

It's what keeps me going. I started playing 7 years ago and I don't think I'd have kept going without all the people I've played with and the friends I've made.

[thestubbyone]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

I think that some of what you are saying is sort of to be expected.

If I start a song at a pub session, local jam or campfire etc there's a good chance that it will be "trashed" by folks joining in. You just have to go with it. If it happens to be a song that someone knows and plays themselves then they will play it their way and I'll have to adapt what I do because they can't.

Hell, I was playing at a concert on Friday night and the audience started to sing along to a song I was doing. You just have to adapt and embrace that it is now their song not yours and guide them through it.

My personal rule for jams is to only play/sing if I will be adding something to the mix. It is sort of the unwritten rule when jamming with good players. But I don't think that it is a rule that you can or should place on an open jam session. Because beginners would never play and those players without the skill to reflect would break the rule anyway.

A jam session is what it is. You just have to roll with it. Sometimes you get a great night that just comes together, and they are special memories.

I get what your saying. I am a bit more laid back in that when we play I don't expect everyone to hit the groove on a song and sometimes a song gets messed up. But that goes with jamming. I record our sessions with a condenser mic and sometimes there is a song worth saving and publishing in a you tube video. Yes there is a sensitivity necessary when you play with other players and particularly if the other players are really good. That is an acquired trait. But what I was talking about was a guy who came in with no experience playing with other musicians and taking over the group, playing multiple songs of his in a row and not giving anyone else a chance. Never mind that he would play over another player with riffs that were off key. I knew what he was like, I told him since first time with other players, he should mostly sit back and listen and gently contribute when he felt he could. He begged me to go and I relented and said OK. For the years he was playing, 6, he was a good guitar player in that he learned the scales and could do lead on certain songs he knew. He was extremely motivated and if was younger (he was in his 70s) I could see him as a very successful musician. But playing good is only part of the deal. Getting along with everyone and feeling the vibe is just as important in a jam group. Another thread could be started on musician feuds. You tube is loaded with stories of big name groups where the musicians hated each other and fought over dominance.

On a different note, when I perform for public, if I get the audience singing or dancing, I think I hit a home run! I'll even give the mic to a brave soul that comes up to me. At that point, I dont care if the music sounds good, its about making people happy

[Jaxon]

what are the problems? for me it's the word jam...2or3 folks getting together and simply playing tunes we enjoy playing not jammin whatever that is

[ssstewart]

prior to the c word when isolation... i used to host a weekly jam at my bar and we would have good turn outs of 15-20 players or so. a few were extremely good players with 5-6 professional musicians attending. it was always a very enjoyable experience and the seasoned players would take the opportunity to build up the other players, leading to them returning and wanting to play more. the patrons also loved the jams and they were equally as appreciative of all the participants in attendance. maybe its a canadian thing