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  #16  
Old 03-25-2017, 02:43 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slianto View Post
Maybe China don't have much legacy or culture about the guitar itself, their old instrument is more like harp or something.

But don't forget, China is very good at "copying", and they can "adjust" the quality depends on the demand or price. they can build great instrument with decent price, or crap instrument with very cheap price.

I've seen same guitar models (Made In China) that sold in Thailand, the quality is so so, but the price also cheap. But I seen one that sold on Aussie, the quality is much much better and price also higher.

So don't get it wrong, China can make bad and great instrument, for their price.
But for the best craftmanship itself, I prefer US built or Japan or maybe Korea.
I'm not happy with the concept of "good at copying". considering the art and science that has emerged from China before we came down from the trees, it is a massive country with a massive population, which in the last few decades have turned from an isolationist military agricultural state to a trading nation to provide the rest of the world with technologically superior products at competitive prices.

They are simply taking a commercial view of what their greatest market - the crazy consumerist demands of "the west" and making what they can sell.

To build a guitar (whilst those who can have my deepest respect) isn't the greatest technology in the world. To build ten thousand of "good" standard is challenging and they can do that well.

China has undergone an industrial revolution in a very short time, and learned from Japan's post war achievements and mistakes (following the west and paying themselves to much).

Are there people in China that could build superior instruments? Well, remember the old saying that if you are seeking that one in a million - in China there are 1,357,000, of them!

China is the 2nd largest (after Russia) and most powerful and populous nation on the planet. It represents about 18.5% of the world population. (USA - 4.3%)

China should not be underestimated in any aspect.
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2017, 03:09 AM
mrkpower mrkpower is offline
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[/QUOTE] China is the 2nd largest (after Russia) and most powerful and populous nation on the planet. It represents about 18.5% of the world population. (USA - 4.3%)

China should not be underestimated in any aspect.[/QUOTE]

Actually, China is the 4th after Russia, Canada and US.
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:53 AM
Judson Judson is offline
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The most expensive Eastman flat top can be bought new for around $1,000 street, so the $2K Martin/Gibson/Guild comparison is not really fair. I have two top-of-the-line Eastman flat tops that I would not trade for any $1,000 Martin/Gibson/Guild. In fact, I'd reverse the arguement to say that Martin/Gibson/Guild may be 5 years away from producing a $1,000 guitar that can compete with Eastman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa View Post
Quite frankly I'm far less impressed with their flattop line and, given what Martin/Taylor/Gibson/Guild are capable of producing in the under-$2K (street) price range, I'd sooner have one of those - IMO Eastman is at least five years away from being able to compete effectively, on a heads-up basis, with the major American makers...
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  #19  
Old 03-25-2017, 05:58 AM
HHP HHP is offline
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I steadfastly refuse to buy any guitar from Antarctica or Lithuania. If that make me a penguinaphobe, so be it.
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  #20  
Old 03-25-2017, 06:52 AM
Watt Watt is offline
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Soul, whatever that means, has nothing to do with it. Chinese guitars, like American, Irish, British, etc, are built with specific price points and markets in mind. Obviously, with their labor costs, manufacturers in China, Indonesia, and other Eastern countries, can more readily produce superior products in the lower price categories. And some are sufficiently good that they might satisfy a player who would otherwise be in the market for one of the well-known and more expensive American guitars. But that's not the market to which their instruments are directed. You surely know that Yamaha produces some exceptional and exceptionally expensive guitars. The quality of those instruments is no less than any comparably priced U.S. guitars. Is the "soul" and history of Japanese guitar building fundamentally different from Chinese?

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  #21  
Old 03-25-2017, 07:00 AM
Sagebrush Tom Sagebrush Tom is offline
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From Steve DeRosa:

of those - IMO Eastman is at least five years away from being able to compete effectively, on a heads-up basis, with the major American makers...

Well somehow my E20 OM was made 5 years before it's time.

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  #22  
Old 03-25-2017, 07:33 AM
MrDB MrDB is offline
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The build quality of my E5SS equals any mass produced guitar from anywhere.

Carry on.
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2017, 07:37 AM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
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Can we have a rule that we can only have a dozen of these kinds of threads about Asia guitars vs. US. etc. etc. a year?


It's the same old song:

"I'll never buy guitars made in China"
"My (insert Eastman, Blueridge,etc.) is as good as a Martin or Taylor"
"The workers in China are in sweat shops"
"It's a global economy, I'll buy from whomever I want to"
"Make America Great again!"
"You're a Zenophobe!"
"blah, blah blah"
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2017, 07:41 AM
TBone-Idle TBone-Idle is offline
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I played my brother's 2015 made in China Guild F-130 the other day. It's an OM type, constructed of solid sitka and solid mahogany and I was very, very impressed. Its tone, playability and build-quality are superb.

It cost him just shy of £600, and there aren't too many all solid wood guitars available at that price.

I'd be proud to own one - it's a lovely instrument.
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2017, 07:46 AM
rokdog49 rokdog49 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judson View Post
The most expensive Eastman flat top can be bought new for around $1,000 street, so the $2K Martin/Gibson/Guild comparison is not really fair. I have two top-of-the-line Eastman flat tops that I would not trade for any $1,000 Martin/Gibson/Guild. In fact, I'd reverse the arguement to say that Martin/Gibson/Guild may be 5 years away from producing a $1,000 guitar that can compete with Eastman.
First time I've heard it put that way. You made me smile.
I respect everyone's opinion about this, but to say that Eastman is "behind" any U.S. Builder is just plain incorrect. My E10 OO is as good a build as my Larrivee L03. My E 20 D is very close and sounds a lot better than many other dreads I have played.Bias is hard to overcome and it weighs heavily into legitimate evaluation.
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  #26  
Old 03-25-2017, 07:48 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronadair View Post
I'm not sure - I could be very wrong here - but I don't think China has a deep Guitar history. I googled players & WOW they have players. Not a lot of history though, I think. So, "made in China" is manufacturing expertise. It begs the "soul" question. Eastman comes to mind.

Thoughts?
You probably don't want to know what my thoughts are right now ... but here it is ...guitars don't have souls ... they are wood, steel, and other materials, but no soul. China has been making FINE musical instruments for centuries. Eastman is more than just guitars ... they've been making orchestral strings for decades. No shortage of experience there.
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  #27  
Old 03-25-2017, 07:58 AM
paulp1960 paulp1960 is offline
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I love my Chinese built Yamaha AC3M. Suits me fine.
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  #28  
Old 03-25-2017, 08:28 AM
MrDB MrDB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulp1960 View Post
I love my Chinese built Yamaha AC3M. Suits me fine.
I have one as well and it is very well made.
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  #29  
Old 03-25-2017, 09:24 AM
Mystery123 Mystery123 is offline
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China is now blended with US lifestyle or in general with World's lifestyle.
From 3rd world south Asian countries to Europe to Africa to Aussie to NA, Chinese goods are part of daily life.

Just make a list of your things in the house.
Besides the house itself, most things are from China.
I get it, there's still that nagging feeling that everyone has in their mind that China takes our jobs so every now and then people think they need to complain.
However, it's time to accept the fact and nothing will change it, nor us nor new government nor new country.
Chinese economy is huge and they make effort to put their goods in the world individually and as a nation unlike us in the US where individuals have to compete and fail.

As for history, what history? The guitar is only few hundred years old and the latest shape is around a hundred years.
Chinese music was there 5000 years ago, that's 10x before USA was even a country.
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  #30  
Old 03-25-2017, 11:20 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Yeah, it's funny to talk about China not having the proper cultural history that's long enough to build string instruments, particularly for folks in the US.

The Chinese fretted string instrument I think some are referring to is the pipa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipa

If you scroll down partway on that Wikipedia entry look at the poetry that describes the performance aspects associated with the pipa from the Tang Dynasty (contemporary time frame back in Europe: "The Dark Ages"). Doesn't look to far away from some of the effects that still seek to bring out of the acoustic guitar now does it?

The pipa doesn't have a timbre like a guitar. Lute is one comparison. A banjo with even less sustain would be another. However the tradition is still to play it with considerable emotional and onomatopoeic effects.

I've been spending time this month translating Tang dynasty Chinese poetry and finding music to put with it, so these thoughts are with me. Just because my ancestors were coming up with Beowulf when Du Fu was writing sophisticated poems about nature and empire doesn't determine my ability to write today, and similarly CF Martin's guitar making skills have not come down me despite my mother's side having come to the US from Germany.

The cool thing (to me) is that we live in a world connected in such ways that we can pick and choose things from many cultures. The commercial arrangements about where things are made is another issue, perhaps with different rules, but as a cultural matter, I'm all for it.
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