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Old 03-23-2017, 01:13 PM
Rudals Rudals is offline
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Default Talent Level Ignored When Forming a Band

I hope I am posting in the right thread to vent. I saw the warning about staying away from RELIGION but I have to go there to provide a bit of a background. This new church that I am a member of does not look at talent level when selecting members. That's all I am going to touch on RELIGION. If you have had a similar experience, please help me understand this whole situation.

Here are some of the issues:
- Praise leader is a former opera singer and I disagree with him leading praise songs using the techniques of an opera singer.
- Singers cannot sing and they cannot be heard anyways.
- There is an electric guitarist who is a complete beginner but they let him just play however he wants.
- It appears the selection process involves one's want to join, enthusiasm, and if the pastor likes him/her (especially the leader).

The end result is a bunch of people just free styling. I get that we're not talking about some professional band but I've never seen this selection process. I have been around for 20 years playing and have been in the lead position for a good 15 years. I will admit that it baffles me and irks me to see people with less talent in the lead. I am find with my current role just as a lead guitarist and a backup vocal but we need some skilled people not just people who wants to join. Maybe I am just an arrogant terrible person who doesn't see the big picture.
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:25 PM
Denny B Denny B is offline
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Maybe the "Big Picture" is that those folks aren't interested in a talent competition, and just want to happily make their "joyful noise" ....
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudals1281 View Post
...Maybe I am just an arrogant terrible person who doesn't see the big picture.
Or maybe it's just not a good fit between their goals/ambitions/criteria for this group and your own. You mentioned being a new member so I'm guessing that what you see is their norm. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you did leave RELIGION out of the picture, I think the obvious would be even more apparent...
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:31 PM
Rudals Rudals is offline
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Maybe the "Big Picture" is that those folks aren't interested in a talent competition, and just want to happily make their "joyful noise" ....
If I play the devil's advocate:
"If they want to sing, they can do that as an audience."

I just want some filtering process when selecting members even IF it is in this setting. I've had to audition in this setting before and I thought that was acceptable. This current process puts a lot of burden on others who know what they're doing.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:00 PM
Denny B Denny B is offline
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Originally Posted by rudals1281 View Post
If I play the devil's advocate:
"If they want to sing, they can do that as an audience."

I just want some filtering process when selecting members even IF it is in this setting. I've had to audition in this setting before and I thought that was acceptable. This current process puts a lot of burden on others who know what they're doing.


"If they want to sing, they can do that as an audience." ?

That seems awfully harsh and judgmental considering the environment of the situation...

It's seems obvious that you're not happy in the existing "band", while it seems others are enjoying themselves...

If you can't control the situation, and you can't accept it, perhaps you should find another "venue" of your liking...
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:02 PM
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I feel your pain, having been in similar situations in the past.

There will always be those who want to but just can't. If their participation is detrimental to your own enjoyment of the project and you find there's no way to adjust the selection process to exclude them, the only viable solution is to exclude yourself.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:29 PM
PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
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I've been in praise bands for over 20 years myself as a drummer.

Anything dealing with church and people is very, very difficult. I understand that they want warm bodies on the praise team, but if the leader doesn't have a lot to pick from, it's a very "take what you can get" situation. And can I be honest? It sucks. Luckily, our leader isn't too afraid at hurting feelings, but at the same time, no one is really a pro. We are all volunteers except for just a couple of the band members.

ALL of our singers (except for my wife and one other female on the team) sing like ex-choir members, not worship leaders. You know what I mean..."big" voices, lots of verbrato, etc. I'm sorry if they've been singing that way for 30 years, but to me, having the ability to change their "style" in order to be on the worship team is a must...but no one does it. I had to drastically change the way I play in order to be on the team. Seems like they should do the same.

I feel your pain. You can always quit. I know I sure would like to sometimes, but I don't for reasons that I can't explain on here.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:31 PM
Rudals Rudals is offline
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To echo the precious two posters, I keep coming to the same conclusion. I cannot control how things are done so why continue to torture myself?! I can only see two ending to this: 1) I quit or 2) just ignore and enjoy.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:43 PM
AX17609 AX17609 is offline
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Praise bands are about community, not performance.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:45 PM
Steve DeRosa Steve DeRosa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny B View Post
...That seems awfully harsh and judgmental considering the environment of the situation....
Not at all - and just as all are not gifted as apostles/prophets/teachers/healers/administrators/interpreters, not all are gifted as musicians. My wife and I have been in a couple of similarly untenable situations over the last 50 years - where personal friendships, unrelated political agendas, and/or poor leadership supersede the greater good of not just the worship team but the congregation as a whole - and should you find yourself in those straits, perhaps it's best to shake the dust off your shoes as you leave and seek out a place where you can serve to the fullest...
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:58 PM
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Our church's music ministry is so sparsely populated I think they take anyone and they pretty much sound like it.

We have a father and son who are in the music business and they sound great. Over the years we've had one pro grade pianist, and two real vocalists - never at the same time. The whole music program is built around these singular performers. The chorus has a guy who sings quite well (not quite pro grade) so he sings everything and every in the chorus kinda whisper-mumbles around him.

I think the lack of appealing music (at least in our institution) drives people away. I think in the spirit of making a joyful noise they will accept anybody.

Beggars can't be choosers I guess, so anyone who expresses an interest gets in. It's like fielding a baseball team and only five kids show up for tryouts....well, everyone is gonna make the team.

In addition to our perpetual solo-vocalist, we have a pianist and a trombonist. The trombone is played quite nicely. It's just unexpected to have a piano and a trombone as your musical backdrop for the chorus.
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:02 PM
Rudals Rudals is offline
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I think where I came from plays a big role in how I am viewing this whole thing. You mess up on a verse, play the wrong chord/note, come late to a practice, these things were pointed out to you while keeping a positive atmosphere
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:15 PM
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I have been a leader in this situation, and it is as some have said. In church, you've often got to work with who you have. Many churches require you use the membership as your talent pool, usually as volunteers. It falls upon your leader to raise the bar from there however.

I assisted a church starting a new Contemporary Service a few years back with a rag tag team of volunteers. A first time bass player who knew a few guitar chords, a classically trained pianist who had never seen a chord chart, and a drummer whose only prior experience was in his high school marching band.

It took time and patience, but through available resources like training videos (There are so many out there. The Paul Baloche Workshop series http://leadworship.com/resources/dvds_acoustic.html the Kerr Contemporary Keyboard Series http://www.leadworshipstore.com/prod...worship-video/ , Beginning Drummer videos etc etc etc...) it is pretty hard not to improve. Additionally I would carve out part of each rehearsal to not work on the songs, but instead to work on techniques, dynamics, leaving room for others (This was especially necessary for the classically trained pianist who was used to using all 10 fingers and all 88 keys), when not to play, how to watch me for signals etc etc... Slowly but surely we all started to gel and they enjoyed it much more too.

If the leader is just letting everyone wing it every week either out of inability themselves or lack of interest, that's where improvement has to start. I would have to agree that having an opera singer in this role might have some challenges.

Here's a pic of me leading that little team. I sure was proud of em! But of course our help came from...
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Last edited by Joe F; 03-23-2017 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:35 PM
leew3 leew3 is online now
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Tragically this sounds like many of the worship settings in which I've been asked to participate as an instrumentalist. Happy to help but I should mention that as a result of these types of dynamics I'm not currently interested in playing in the church settings available to me. I would like to hope that this will improve for you but that would involve my ignoring my experiences with similar situations! May this be an exception to the rule for you.
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:55 PM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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Hmmmm.... I understand your pain. Just try to fire the volunteer drummer, teenage son of one of the elders. Trouble with these bands is that to let anyone go is often seen as uncharitable so nothing changes. Some listening members of the congregation might think it the epitome of charity tho ...
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