Perfect Pitch

[Fattymagoo]

Originally Posted by FwL

A lot of people say that, but to me that is like a color blind person saying they would find seeing all those individual colors a curse.

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Being able to see colors isn't inherently irritating and doesn't ruin the experience of the viewer. Rather than responding by arguing a hypothetical with me, simply play your guitar slightly out of tune for the next six months and see how you like it. I'm guessing you won't like it very much at all.


Edit: I think a better analogy, if you want to use the ability to see things, would be those people in movies that go crazy because they can see the ghosts and demons that exist all around us, but no one else can see them so they have to try to not react. That sounds very nerve-racking… Kind of like hearing everything out of tune.

[tbeltrans]

This is my understanding about perfect pitch...

A person with perfect pitch can supposedly hear a note and tell what it is without a reference note (as we use with relative pitch).

A person with perfect pitch can supposedly hear a chord and know what it is because s/he can hear the individual notes in it.

What people who claim to have perfect pitch that I have either read or heard talk about it, have said that it is more of a bother than an asset because more often than not, these people hear out of tune aspects of music performances, whether recorded or live, that the rest of us either don't hear or are not bothered by to the extent that they are.

I have read enough controversy about perfect pitch:

- we are all born with it, and most lose it over time because we don't use it
- not all of us are born with it
- it can be developed through appropriate exercises
- it can't be developed after a certain age
- some got it, some never do

I say "controversy" because all these statements are conflicting and can't all be true at the same time.

The following I know from personal experience and the experience of the musician people I know personally...

Fortunately, a very useful hearing tool for musicians is relative pitch, and we can ALL develop that.

Relative pitch is a skill that we can develop through use. As a group, guitarists should get pretty good at this because it is quite common for us to figure stuff out from recordings, which is a very good form of ear training because it is fun and provides a real sense of accomplishment. To me, focus on this and forget about perfect pitch and all that silly controversy. Good relative pitch is what it means to have a good ear for a musician.

This paragraph I have read, but have never met anyone who was truly tone deaf...apparently, there is a very small percentage of any given population who are tone deaf and won't be able to develop relative pitch, but from what I have read, that number is so small as to be statistically insignificant.

My GUESS is that if you can hear the difference between two simple melodies such as "Happy Birthday" and "Silent Night", or can determine that one pitch is higher or lower than another, you are not tone deaf.


Tony

[FwL]

Originally Posted by Fattymagoo

Rather than responding by arguing a hypothetical with me, simply play your guitar slightly out of tune for the next six months and see how you like it. I'm guessing you won't like it very much at all.

I don't have to argue a hypothetical. I play my guitar every day out of tune. Western music itself is based on out of tune intervals. When I hear somebody play a major chord on a perfectly tuned instrument, I hear the third of the chord is sharp. It would sound so much better if they just lowered that note a bit. But equal tempered tuning dictates that major thirds are tuned sharp.

This may be why I gravitate to minor sounds over major sounds, but I can certainly listen to a piece with major chords and enjoy it despite notes being out of tune.

I think the whole "perfect pitch ruined my ability to listen to music" meme is an old wives tale that sounds good to people who don't have the ability.

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[greenshoe]

I have perfect pitch - I knew since I was a kid (started life playing piano before guitar).

I haven't met anyone else with it. But my guess is how it affects one's enjoyment in music is different from one individual to the next.

For me, I can identify the key, individual notes without reference, and in any music I can hear whether someone's singing or intonation is off. But I don't feel it bothers me more than it does anyone else. Only difference is that I notice it. Just like someone mentioned the Rolling Stones - I'm sure many of you could hear Jagger's pitchiness at times but does it bother you? I'm sure at times yes, other times no. Same with me. Generally though, I find being a little flat a bit easier to take than being sharp (and most singers tend to be flat if they're reaching for high notes). Which is why pitchy singers for me isn't quite as irritating as violins/violas in a solo or chamber suite (orchestral is fine since it's a larger bed of sound). Actually, solo violins even if more or less on key is the one exception that I can't really listen to without feeling irritable.

Beyond that, it doesn't really affect me musically though - doesn't make me more talented or less. It's more of a circus party trick, to be honest. Doesn't really give you any advantage as a musician for the most part - so much more to music than key signature or intonation.

I hesitate to call it curse, but two negative things:

- supposedly there's a greater correlation between perfect pitch and schizophrenia

- I am very sensitive to sounds (musical notes are just one type of "sound"). I generally don't find music any more or less of a bother than others, but I find myself getting more easily irritated by more kinds of speaking voices than other people. There are podcasts and people in real life whose vocal quality drive me insane - like fingers on a chalkboard. Or if I'm at a restaurant and there's a table across where one person's vocal timbre irritates me, I have to move tables or it'll drive me insane (like it gets me angry at that table even though I know that it's not their fault).

Whistling also drives me insane. I had to quit a job once because I couldn't stand my boss's constant whistling.

[Fattymagoo]

Originally Posted by FwL

I don't have to argue a hypothetical. I play my guitar every day out of tune. Western music itself is based on out of tune intervals. When I hear somebody play a major chord on a perfectly tuned instrument, I hear the third of the chord is sharp. It would sound so much better if they just lowered that note a bit. But equal tempered tuning dictates that major thirds are tuned sharp.

This may be why I gravitate to minor sounds over major sounds, but I can certainly listen to a piece with major chords and enjoy it despite notes being out of tune.

I think the whole "perfect pitch ruined my ability to listen to music" meme is an old wives tale that sounds good to people who don't have the ability.

.

That was a very interesting post on the third being inherently sharp. I'm going to do some listening now. I still maintain that being "over-sensitive" to anything, including sound, would probably be a bad thing. Again, no offense was intended though.

[stanron]

Pitch isn't, and never has been, absolute. Some museum somewhere has Handel's old tuning fork. It's nominally G but sounds like somewhere between F and F# by today's standard. Even today pitch varies in different places. I'm used to A = 440 but Wikipedia says that the Berlin Phil use A = 443 as opposed to a previous 445. Pitch is relative. People who are locked into one pitch will suffer when listening to lots of music. An ability to hear variations of pitch as being in tune and still be able to name them would be close to perfect.

I find that my short term pitch memory improves if I practice. For most of my 55 playing years pitch memory, on guitar, was not a big deal. Singing unaccompanied, pitch memory becomes more important. I wish I had tried to learn it a long time ago.

[Fattymagoo]

Originally Posted by greenshoe

I have perfect pitch - I knew since I was a kid (started life playing piano before guitar).

I haven't met anyone else with it. But my guess is how it affects one's enjoyment in music is different from one individual to the next.

For me, I can identify the key, individual notes without reference, and in any music I can hear whether someone's singing or intonation is off. But I don't feel it bothers me more than it does anyone else. Only difference is that I notice it. Just like someone mentioned the Rolling Stones - I'm sure many of you could hear Jagger's pitchiness at times but does it bother you? I'm sure at times yes, other times no. Same with me. Generally though, I find being a little flat a bit easier to take than being sharp (and most singers tend to be flat if they're reaching for high notes). Which is why pitchy singers for me isn't quite as irritating as violins/violas in a solo or chamber suite (orchestral is fine since it's a larger bed of sound). Actually, solo violins even if more or less on key is the one exception that I can't really listen to without feeling irritable.

Beyond that, it doesn't really affect me musically though - doesn't make me more talented or less. It's more of a circus party trick, to be honest. Doesn't really give you any advantage as a musician for the most part - so much more to music than key signature or intonation.

I hesitate to call it curse, but two negative things:

- supposedly there's a greater correlation between perfect pitch and schizophrenia

- I am very sensitive to sounds (musical notes are just one type of "sound"). I generally don't find music any more or less of a bother than others, but I find myself getting more easily irritated by more kinds of speaking voices than other people. There are podcasts and people in real life whose vocal quality drive me insane - like fingers on a chalkboard. Or if I'm at a restaurant and there's a table across where one person's vocal timbre irritates me, I have to move tables or it'll drive me insane (like it gets me angry at that table even though I know that it's not their fault).

Whistling also drives me insane. I had to quit a job once because I couldn't stand my boss's constant whistling.

This was VERY interesting! Looks like it has definitely had a negative impact on your life if you'd had to quit jobs and flee interaction with strangers. Sadly, I can relate to some of those sound sensitivity issues. Not the end of the world, but definitely a bummer at times. My pitch is nowhere near perfect though! 😖

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by greenshoe

I have perfect pitch - I knew since I was a kid (started life playing piano before guitar).

I haven't met anyone else with it. But my guess is how it affects one's enjoyment in music is different from one individual to the next.

For me, I can identify the key, individual notes without reference, and in any music I can hear whether someone's singing or intonation is off. But I don't feel it bothers me more than it does anyone else. Only difference is that I notice it. Just like someone mentioned the Rolling Stones - I'm sure many of you could hear Jagger's pitchiness at times but does it bother you? I'm sure at times yes, other times no. Same with me. Generally though, I find being a little flat a bit easier to take than being sharp (and most singers tend to be flat if they're reaching for high notes). Which is why pitchy singers for me isn't quite as irritating as violins/violas in a solo or chamber suite (orchestral is fine since it's a larger bed of sound). Actually, solo violins even if more or less on key is the one exception that I can't really listen to without feeling irritable.

Beyond that, it doesn't really affect me musically though - doesn't make me more talented or less. It's more of a circus party trick, to be honest. Doesn't really give you any advantage as a musician for the most part - so much more to music than key signature or intonation.

I hesitate to call it curse, but two negative things:

- supposedly there's a greater correlation between perfect pitch and schizophrenia

- I am very sensitive to sounds (musical notes are just one type of "sound"). I generally don't find music any more or less of a bother than others, but I find myself getting more easily irritated by more kinds of speaking voices than other people. There are podcasts and people in real life whose vocal quality drive me insane - like fingers on a chalkboard. Or if I'm at a restaurant and there's a table across where one person's vocal timbre irritates me, I have to move tables or it'll drive me insane (like it gets me angry at that table even though I know that it's not their fault).

Whistling also drives me insane. I had to quit a job once because I couldn't stand my boss's constant whistling.

You have perfect pitch? OK, prove it! What note did I just play?

Just kidding.

It is interesting to read what folks who have perfect pitch have to say about it. There is nothing about that I can argue, since I don't have it and therefore do not have the experience from which to draw.

By the way, I am color blind. I failed to see the colors in ANY of those dot cards the Army uses to test that (except the really obvious one to show us what we are supposed to see in the other cards).

It is strange. I can see color (i.e. my world is not black and white in that regard), but I must not see the colors as other people do. I can't tell if this color goes with that color, and therefore dress very simply unless my wife picks something out for me. Apparently, there are shades of certain colors I can "train" myself to see. I don't really understand this color blindness thing, since I do see colors, but distinguishing them or calling them correctly seems lost on me.

I don't think I have perfect pitch, and am reasonably sure I would know if I did. However, I can figure stuff out by ear pretty easily and can readily hear when something is out of tune. that can be painful to listen too. I suspect that the threshold for "out of tune" for me is probably much less sensitive than for somebody with perfect pitch. I have really good relative pitch, that comes from playing in group situations and figuring out a lot of stuff off recordings. I can read standard notation, but it will never be my "native language" as hearing music is. But, then, to me music is really a "hearing art" where painting would be a visual art.

Tony

[Parlorman]

My friend's mom was a good sport and used to humor us with her ability. She could tell any note played separately, all the notes in a chord and any variation from pitch. You could hand her a de-tuned guitar and she could bring it into tune by ear and it would be spot on when you checked it against a piano. As a classically trained musician, she was well versed in different temperaments and could tune accordingly. She had the gift.

[Von Beerhofen]

a guitarist friend of mine has perfect pitch and we've put it to the test too. He was 100% correct in naming any chord or note I threw at him. I can't say how it plays out if the guitar is slightly off pitch or wether he can tune 100% correct without any aid. Still I was pretty impressed, moreso because he was younger then me and twice as good on the guitar and a great bass player and drummer as well.

Makes me wonder if all people with perfect pitch also have the same feel for rhythm as he does.

Ludwig

[Bronsky]

If people who are far from having perfect pitch can be bothered by my singing, I can't imagine how hard life must be for people with perfect pitch. 😅

[Clallam]

My parents were friends with an interesting couple. The woman was a violinist with a major symphony. I've been told she had perfect pitch. Her husband was totally tone deaf. You could play two notes and he wouldn't know they were different. It wasn't somewhat they thought about. That is, until they had a chance to spend a year in China. They both started learning Chinese immediately. The language uses tones a lot. She learned to speak it in record time. Her instructor attributed that to her ability to hear and reproduce the tones. He said that is the usual problem for native speakers of English. Her husband was never able to learn Chinese even after a year of immersion over there. He was a smart guy who studied hard. He just couldn't hear enough of the tones to tell the words apart.

[Steel and wood]

No, I don't know anyone with perfect pitch. (I naturally hear major and minor keys and can find a key easy enough if I have a guitar in hand, otherwise it's an educated guess).

[LSemmens]

When in high school, one of my classmates had perfect pitch, and his comment on common complaints of something slightly off key was that it did bother him. I suppose, they just get "used" to it, like living next to an airport or a railway.

God and I are going to have a looong talk when I finally kick the bucket. Despite having played in a band for near on 40 years, I cannot "play by ear". I know the progressions, but, without a chart, or another instrument to "read" I get lost real quick. Even simple three chord wonders if the progression is, say, C - F - G, I'm ok, until they change it to be C - G - F and throw in a couple of passing chords, too, then I get lost. Even if I've played the song a thousand times, I can still count on one hand the number of songs I could actually play by memory, and, even then I may get them wrong, too. Give me a chart, and I can play, most anything, but, without.......Whole 'nother story.

[Captain Jim]

I played in a band with a keyboard player who had perfect pitch. It really was amazing. We didn't know this when we auditioned him (he didn't mention it???), and while trying him on different songs, he'd say, "Yeah, I've heard that"... then, play it perfectly.

He was quite an asset in the band (back in the 70s) - we could listen to a song on the radio in the bus, and he would tell me the chords as the song was playing. I would write that down and transpose for the horns... we learned a lot of new songs that way.

One time, he named off a chord that I had never heard of... he picked up my guitar and showed me where to put my fingers. No, he didn't play guitar, but had an instant understanding of the fretboard.