Chuck Berry , underrated ?

Long Jon · #1 03-24-2017, 03:44 PM

When Chuck Berry died a lot of us here expressed our sadness at his passing and admiration of his contribution to Rock n Roll .

However, how long since you actually watched him ?

He's on the BBC right now , in a film of a London concert he did in 1972 . Height of his powers...

MAN ! He was just SO great !! Such a fabulous performer and musician ...
I'd kinda forgotten , probably only heard other people covering Johnny B Goode for the last 30 years.

EDIT: Just spotted young Peter Green and Ginger Baker in the happy audience !

buddyhu · #2 03-24-2017, 05:55 PM

A good question. He might be under appreciated. Might be another of those racial things...white boys playing derivatives and covers of the blues were more acceptable than the gritty, simple (and Black) masters of the blues. So maybe early rockers who were white were more appreciated than a guy like Chuck Berry, who crossed a few boundaries in terms of how he presented himself to the world, and how he performed. Some folks weren't (and some still aren't) ready for such a flamboyant black man.

Xray · #3 03-24-2017, 06:32 PM

I think he was over rated if anything.
He was good on the guitar for his day, great song writer. Innovative player and front man.
Widely acclaimed, cited as a major influence by just about every rock musician in the 1960's/70's. Reached iconic status long ago, if that is not quite enough not sure what sort of recognition you are looking for.

No need to play a race card either, I could name quite a few white musicians who I think are over rated too. If anything, he received a large part of his notoriety precisely because he was black.

reeve21 · #4 03-24-2017, 06:48 PM

Chuck Berry, more than any other one individual, and I'm including Elvis, is responsible for the creation of the genre of music we call rock and roll.

He never got his due.

blue · #5 03-24-2017, 06:50 PM

Most folks who underrate him probably never tried to play his stuff accurately. There's some freaky rhythmic things going on when you least expect it, and it's not even necessary to git it right for the casual listener.

Meaning if you gloss it over and play it simply nobody will notice. And if you play it right at a gig, almost nobody will notice. But the folks who do play it right will either give you thumbs up or down depending on your approach.

Jim Owen · #6 03-24-2017, 09:27 PM

I saw him live in 72; his guitar playing was spot on. A lot of us grew up copying his chops.

Mr. Jelly · #7 03-25-2017, 07:18 AM

I think he is underrated. His song writing is very unique. They are pop songs that have stories with a R & R beat. His guitar style was influenced by T-Bone Walker. He took that and made the style into the CB style of guitar playing that all pop guitarists must learn a little of at some point. His personality was one of the reasons he is underrated. So I think it's fair. As an example I was at an establishment the night he passed and wanted to play his music on the jukebox. One of those jukeboxes that you can access on your phone so there are allot of songs to draw from. I couldn't find any songs of his that were famous. I believe because he held the licensing on them to protect the money he could make from them. That was Chuck.

deltoid · #8 03-25-2017, 09:40 AM

I'm going to have to say, from a purely technical standpoint, his guitar playing is overrated. He was an extraordinary showman though, and that's what it's all about. Of course, his style was groundbreaking and his songs make you want to get up and dance.

For example, in this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJs0PMVP3Bc during his solos, he isn't really doing a whole lot, but the way he moves and the expressions he makes adds to the entertainment.

FrankHudson · #9 03-25-2017, 10:41 AM

Hard to rate artistic merit--it's so subjective--and if you add "underrated" and "overrated" you get the "according to who" or "compared to what" factors added in.

Influence is easier to have an objective discussion about. Chuck Berry is obviously influential. If you look at the cohort of early Rock'n'Roll and then fast forward a decade or so when it began to be called "Rock" and to be considered as music for those past the teenage years, you see fewer disciples of Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley, Fats Domino, the Everly Brothers, Little Richard, or any of the "Bird Group" R&B harmony singers, than you see folks who can seen as Chuck Berry disciples. Buddy Holly is the only other model from the 50s for that 60's thing.

If you find Chuck Berry kind of uninspiring as a musician you have to make sure that you aren't like the person who didn't like Shakespeare because his plays had so many clichés in them.

Artistic merit? Subjective, but a number of things about Berry are admirable. Those lyrics are great, despite sometimes being about juvenile topics. His sophisticated metrical flow, his playfulness with language, his freshness of approach are all first rate.

Musically, that interaction with the piano is hard to pull off. Not only does it do the "weave" and the "roll part of Rock'n'Roll" that Keith Richards is always seeking, finding a way to sit guitar and piano harmonically together is not a gimmie.

It's easy too to miss how effective he is as singer since he doesn't have a remarkable range to show off and never engages in expressive histrionics. Even on record with no visuals there's always the touch of a raised eyebrow in his singing.

As a showman he's also first rate. I think of the TAMI show, that 1964 compilation of live acts famous for James Brown's performance that overwhelmed the Rolling Stones trying to follow him. Watching it a few years back I realized that it wasn't that the Rolling Stones were so inept as showmen, it was that no one else on that varied bill could hold a candle to Brown and the Famous Flames--well except maybe for one guy, Chuck Berry, who seemed saddled by a cameraman or director who couldn't seem to keep him fully in the shot, and someone's bright idea to pair him with Gerry and the Pacemakers. Ten or twelve minutes with Chuck, shot right, even then as he was pushing 40, even as he sang his last truly great song "Nadine," could have gone toe to toe with James Brown, even if Chuck didn't have a cape, and that's saying something.

Long Jon · #10 03-25-2017, 05:42 PM

Nice post Frank,
I only started this thread on a whim, while watching an old film of Mr. B in concert, but it has elicited some great responses , thanks all.

buddyhu · #11 03-25-2017, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Jon

Nice post Frank,
I only started this thread on a whim, while watching an old film of Mr. B in concert, but it has elicited some great responses , thanks all.

Agreed: Frank's post was very well-considered and nicely expressed.

Here is a fairly recent Rolling Stone interview with CB. It clearly reflects his influence, and the regard others have held for his work.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/fe...-think-w443396

posternutbag · #12 03-25-2017, 08:30 PM

Chuck Berry is underrated in the same way that Louis Armstrong is underrated. These are two men who each singlehandedly changed the course of popular music, stylistically, instrumentally, and vocally.

FrankHudson · #13 03-25-2017, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyhu

Agreed: Frank's post was very well-considered and nicely expressed.

Here is a fairly recent Rolling Stone interview with CB. It clearly reflects his influence, and the regard others have held for his work.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/fe...-think-w443396

Thanks for the nice words. I often worry about my "know it all" or "mansplaining" factor being overbearing, but it's just my honest attempt to come to grips with the things I've experienced.

ManyMartinMan · #14 03-26-2017, 09:25 PM

I don't believe that any creative artist that has been so revered, acclaimed, admired and copied for over 50 years will ever be overrated. It's real easy in 2017 to sit back and claim that someone who was creating ground-breaking music and musicianship is over-hyped or rated. It's easy to copy guys like Mr. Barry or Jimmy Hendrix and others. It's a whole other thing to be one of the the original creators of an entire genre. I'm always amused by anyone who claims that those who led the way, for anything, don't deserve all the credit they get (and usually more) for being the creative and driving force of things artistic. It's like saying that Picasso, Dali or Monet are over rated because their styles weren't in synch with the times.

Don Lampson · #15 03-27-2017, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Jon

When Chuck Berry died a lot of us here expressed our sadness at his passing and admiration of his contribution to Rock n Roll .

However, how long since you actually watched him ?

He's on the BBC right now , in a film of a London concert he did in 1972 . Height of his powers...

MAN ! He was just SO great !! Such a fabulous performer and musician ...
I'd kinda forgotten , probably only heard other people covering Johnny B Goode for the last 30 years.

EDIT: Just spotted young Peter Green and Ginger Baker in the happy audience !

I don't think a legend like Chuck Berry's can either be under, or overrated. He was a founding father of rock & roll, with a guitar style as recognizable as Merle Travis, Les Paul, or Jimi Hendrix. His songs expressed the youthful spirit of the time perfectly. His voice and showmanship, place him almost in a class by himself.....

Don