unplugged sound

[zuzu]

Regarding solid body electric instruments, have you ever noticed the unplugged resonance of a solid body instrument influencing the amplified sound?

I ask because I played the same Guild B-301 bass from 1977 until 2019, a bass with a very lively unplugged resonance, then I purchased a Guild Starfire 2 semi hollowbody bass. The Starfire is short scale, which I thought may be easier on my hands (it was) and there was certainly no question about the unplugged resonance. The B-301 was so lively in fact that, though it sounded awesome "on tape" (ancient times), it was so noisy that engineers hated it and would cry for a P bass. In these digital days the Starfire left much to be desired in the DAW and actually turned out to be pretty much a one trick pony and was sold.

So, liking the short scale a lot physically, I went all in and got an Ibanez Mikro mini bass, 28.6 scale, blue. Then another, "root beer" metallic. Very pretty! They play very much like a guitar with a neck profile that can only be described as narrow in every dimension and they sound OK (after some string eliminations to find the right set). But they are not what you would describe as "lively" plugged in (excluding a hard core slap bass setup), in the sense of bringing plenty of low end "whomp", yet contained in that "whomp" the very distinct and clear fundamental of the note you are playing. A bit woofy, as short scale basses are noted to be sometimes...and unplugged they are dead as a hammer. Mods are available and I may yet go that route, but meanwhile I have purchased a CNZaudio JB mini Jazz Bass.

The JB is a 28.6 scale copy of a Fender Jazz Bass and very different from the Mikro bass. Whereas Ibanez appears to have designed a 28.6 scale bass from ground up, the JB is simply a shrunken Jazz Bass, with the feel, string spacing, etc. of a Jazz bass. In essence a 28.6 scale Jazz Bass which (except for being smaller) feels and plays like a Jazz Bass. But the best part is that it sounds amazingly like a Jazz Bass also. It's uncanny really, and I am loving it!

The CNZ doesn't have the "growl" of my old Guild B-301 (neither does a Fender Jazz Bass) but it definitely brings the low end "whomp" together with a clearly defined fundamental in each note you play. And, hmmm...it is the only solid body bass I've played that is as lively unplugged as that old Guild...just a coincidence that two basses with a very focused fundamental tone are also highly resonant unplugged?

[zuzu]

Expect more novels from me on these pages for the next few weeks...my wife broke her leg and I am the nurse...

[Brent Hahn]

Counter-novel: I've got an Ibanez Blazer bass (1980?) that will sustain into next week. Pretty amazing. No practical use for that kind of sustain, but the thing's really lively in your hands. With all that sustain, though, it won't do what a semihollow (like a Jack Casady or a Starfire) will do to some degree, or what my big acoustic (guitar-style) bass with a mag pickup will do. Those instruments keep some of the note hanging around after you've choked it off. Like an upright, but less so. The body cavity behaves like a tiny room. Or "doghouse," I guess. FWIW, I find the bodies of Beatle basses too small to have any of that effect. Okay, novelette.

[BearfootBob]

This is similar to the "does tonewood matter in solid body instruments" question.

it's always complicated.

first off, the electronics in your vintage Guild were IMO vastly superior to the replacements that followed. Swap a modern low budget pickup into that bass, and I believe it will lose its tonal mojo.

You can find studies and comparisons that seem to completely destroy any notion that the type of wood matters one bit in terms of solid body, magnetic pickup tonal quality. Put a pickup in a cheap piece of pine, or a fine chunk of rosewood, and you will not be able to tell a difference in those studies.

However, what I have not seen studied is the effect of the resonant frequency of a given chunk of wood on the sympathetic vibration, and/or dampening, of a string. I believe that effect is most likely what a musician is experiencing when one solid-body guitar sounds more alive than another, and when both have identical pickups. Something about the second chunk of wood is subtly dampening some frequencies of the vibrating string. Some people speculate that the quality of the neck joint plays into this as well.

So while wood choice does not seem to produce anything like consistent results like you find in acoustic instruments, I think the overall resonance of the slab must interact with the vibrating string in some way. It's the kind of thing that could potentially be thrown off with just 1/32" of wood difference (as it is with acoustic guitar braces), or a slightly different string composition, so I don't know if it's ever going to be quantified.

[Rudy4]

Yes, I think every solid body (or semi-acoustic) has always displayed a tonality that's beyond the electronics involved.

I picked up an almost new Mikro for $50 on Craigslist and played it for a couple of years before building fretless and fretted 30" scale basses for myself.

They both have piezo bridges, and one also has a MM style pickup and one has a P bass set. I'm pretty happy with everything bass in my small cadre of instruments.

Mine are modeled somewhat after the Rob Allen Mouse bass design. There are full build topics with free CAD plans on a popular bass forum.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by zuzu

Regarding solid body electric instruments, have you ever noticed the unplugged resonance of a solid body instrument influencing the amplified sound?

I ask because I played the same Guild B-301 bass from 1977 until 2019, a bass with a very lively unplugged resonance, then I purchased a Guild Starfire 2 semi hollowbody bass. The Starfire is short scale, which I thought may be easier on my hands (it was) and there was certainly no question about the unplugged resonance. The B-301 was so lively in fact that, though it sounded awesome "on tape" (ancient times), it was so noisy that engineers hated it and would cry for a P bass. In these digital days the Starfire left much to be desired in the DAW and actually turned out to be pretty much a one trick pony and was sold.

So, liking the short scale a lot physically, I went all in and got an Ibanez Mikro mini bass, 28.6 scale, blue. Then another, "root beer" metallic. Very pretty! They play very much like a guitar with a neck profile that can only be described as narrow in every dimension and they sound OK (after some string eliminations to find the right set). But they are not what you would describe as "lively" plugged in (excluding a hard core slap bass setup), in the sense of bringing plenty of low end "whomp", yet contained in that "whomp" the very distinct and clear fundamental of the note you are playing. A bit woofy, as short scale basses are noted to be sometimes...and unplugged they are dead as a hammer. Mods are available and I may yet go that route, but meanwhile I have purchased a CNZaudio JB mini Jazz Bass.

The JB is a 28.6 scale copy of a Fender Jazz Bass and very different from the Mikro bass. Whereas Ibanez appears to have designed a 28.6 scale bass from ground up, the JB is simply a shrunken Jazz Bass, with the feel, string spacing, etc. of a Jazz bass. In essence a 28.6 scale Jazz Bass which (except for being smaller) feels and plays like a Jazz Bass. But the best part is that it sounds amazingly like a Jazz Bass also. It's uncanny really, and I am loving it!

The CNZ doesn't have the "growl" of my old Guild B-301 (neither does a Fender Jazz Bass) but it definitely brings the low end "whomp" together with a clearly defined fundamental in each note you play. And, hmmm...it is the only solid body bass I've played that is as lively unplugged as that old Guild...just a coincidence that two basses with a very focused fundamental tone are also highly resonant unplugged?

My own tome:

• First bass was a near-mint cherry-red '67 Epiphone Rivoli "Chas Chandler" semi-hollow that cost me all of $150 w/OSSC at Manny's in 1977: used the two-way pushbutton in the "bass" position for live work (brought the floor up about two feet every time I hit a low E ), "baritone" position in the studio - with a set of then-new D'Addario half-rounds it had sufficient definition to sit well in a live acoustic trio (with an almost upright-bass feel), enough clarity on tape, and all the easy handling of a short-scale...
• Had a couple of beaters through the 80's, scored myself a brand-new Pedulla with first-gen Bartolini P/J PU's in 1990: played great (as expected), sounded just OK until I counter-intuitively installed a LaBella 52-110 "Jamerson" set - totally came alive with amazing acoustic tone and sustain for days (both of which translate well to amplification), haven't used any other strings in over 30 years, still use the bass on limited occasions...
• Bought myself one of those Ibanez Mikro basses (pearl white BTW) when my wife and I taught an extracurricular guitar program at our former school (had a very talented but very petite young lady, who couldn't handle the full-size P- and J-style instruments the school band director insisted on using with his own kids ); nice little instrument until the neck went south with D'Addario 45-100 flats, and repair wasn't cost-effective - may just pick one up somewhere down the line and strip my current one for parts...
• Presented my wife with a Hofner 5000/1 Deluxe as an anniversary present when she expressed an interest in learning bass; sounded wooly and indistinct until a strung it up with LaBella flats: small wonder Sir Paulie Mac had Mandolin Brothers install them on his '62 when they restored it - clarity, definition, and a rather pleasant if not-terribly deep unplugged tone, without losing the characteristic Hofner electric sound...
• Found my soul (and blues, and rock, and folk, and R&B, and country, and...) mate about 15 years ago, in a short-scale Gibson SG Faded - basically a simplified version of Jack Bruce's Cream-era EB-3 that covers 95% of what I need in a working bass, again with easier handling than either the aforementioned Pedulla or my early-2K's Ibanez 5-string: it growls, it slaps-&-pops, it purrs, it pumps out the expected Gibson wall-shaking low end, and with LaBella 49-109 flats and low action (the classic '60s setup) it has a woody body resonance and sustain that dispels the lie that short-scale basses are tonally inferior...

Just curious if you did any experimentation with strings before unloading that Starfire - I know what it did for my instruments, and I've had one on my radar since the Gretsch 6120-style bass I mistakenly bought in the early-2K's turned out to be a total dud...

[zuzu]

Yes I did try several string types on the Starfire bass and ended up with tapewounds (Dadarrio) as the winner. But one I did not try was Labella flats, which are now on all my short scale basses...plainly superior bass strings for short scale! Anything else has not even been close in my experience so far. If I had tried them on that Starfire I suspect I would still be playing that bass.

Be that as is, last night was my first gig the the CNZ (just got it Wednesday) and I am quite impressed. Had to tune just a bit between sets but the Labella strings had only been on about 24 hours. Easy play, comfortable to wear, instinctive feel. And at different points of the evening each of my band mates came to me to say how good it sounded and they all used the same adjective; "clear".

Whomping fat low end, bell ringing fundamental, sweet to play. I am a happy camper. And, scientific studies aside, I think part of it is because the little bass is so very resonant unplugged.

[Mbroady]

I don’t buy into “the pickups are where you get the sound on an electric guitar/bass
Yes, there is a larger percentage of tone from the pickups, but even if it is 90% pickup, the other 10% makes a difference to me

Case in point, went back and forth with a fatback Strat neck (1 inch) and a slimmer c profile neck. To me the increased mass of the fat back neck added more volume and girth to the unplugged sound as well as the plugged in sound. Was it real or just a skewed perception? Who knows

[Charlie Bernstein]

Originally Posted by zuzu

Regarding solid body electric instruments, have you ever noticed the unplugged resonance of a solid body instrument influencing the amplified sound? . . .

Well, sure.

In fact, before you plug in a solid-body guitar, hold it flat with one hand and pluck a string with the other to feel the body vibrate. The stronger, steadier, and longer the vibe, the more likely it is that the guitar will sound good.

The hardware matters, too, of course, but a lot of the tone is in the wood and the finish.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by zuzu

Regarding solid body electric instruments, have you ever noticed the unplugged resonance of a solid body instrument influencing the amplified sound?

I ask because I played the same Guild B-301 bass from 1977 until 2019, a bass with a very lively unplugged resonance, then I purchased a Guild Starfire 2 semi hollowbody bass. The Starfire is short scale, which I thought may be easier on my hands (it was) and there was certainly no question about the unplugged resonance. The B-301 was so lively in fact that, though it sounded awesome "on tape" (ancient times), it was so noisy that engineers hated it and would cry for a P bass. In these digital days the Starfire left much to be desired in the DAW and actually turned out to be pretty much a one trick pony and was sold.

So, liking the short scale a lot physically, I went all in and got an Ibanez Mikro mini bass, 28.6 scale, blue. Then another, "root beer" metallic. Very pretty! They play very much like a guitar with a neck profile that can only be described as narrow in every dimension and they sound OK (after some string eliminations to find the right set). But they are not what you would describe as "lively" plugged in (excluding a hard core slap bass setup), in the sense of bringing plenty of low end "whomp", yet contained in that "whomp" the very distinct and clear fundamental of the note you are playing. A bit woofy, as short scale basses are noted to be sometimes...and unplugged they are dead as a hammer. Mods are available and I may yet go that route, but meanwhile I have purchased a CNZaudio JB mini Jazz Bass.

The JB is a 28.6 scale copy of a Fender Jazz Bass and very different from the Mikro bass. Whereas Ibanez appears to have designed a 28.6 scale bass from ground up, the JB is simply a shrunken Jazz Bass, with the feel, string spacing, etc. of a Jazz bass. In essence a 28.6 scale Jazz Bass which (except for being smaller) feels and plays like a Jazz Bass. But the best part is that it sounds amazingly like a Jazz Bass also. It's uncanny really, and I am loving it!

The CNZ doesn't have the "growl" of my old Guild B-301 (neither does a Fender Jazz Bass) but it definitely brings the low end "whomp" together with a clearly defined fundamental in each note you play. And, hmmm...it is the only solid body bass I've played that is as lively unplugged as that old Guild...just a coincidence that two basses with a very focused fundamental tone are also highly resonant unplugged?

Why not post this in the "Electric Guitars" forum? This one is for "Other Instruments" in the sense of banjos, mandolins, bass, et cetera.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Why not post this in the "Electric Guitars" forum? This one is for "Other Instruments" in the sense of banjos, mandolins, bass, et cetera.

I count five different basses in the original post: Guild B-301, Guild Starfire 2, two Ibanez Mikros, and a JB Mini - not a guitar in the bunch...

Looks like he's in the right place to me...

[Rudy4]

Since the OP stated "Regarding solid body electric instruments..." I would have no way of knowing they weren't curious about other solid body instruments such as "Banjocasters", electric mandolins, etc.

Beyond electric guitars there are a lot of other possibilities.