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  #1  
Old 11-05-2011, 02:06 PM
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Kitchen Guitars Kitchen Guitars is offline
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Default Pore filling on a French Polish questions

I pore filled with pumice on #1, #2 was Sycamore, no pore filling required. #3 is for a friend. He wants a glossy smooth. #1 was not so smooth.
I have found out his gloss desire after I started to Shellac. Best I can tell Z-poxy does not work on Shellac. But, Shellac works fine on zpoxy. Do I strip the finish with Alcohol then Zpoxy or are there other options?
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:07 AM
marioed marioed is offline
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You are correct that Z-poxy does not go on over shellac. If you want to use Z-poxy you'll have to strip the shellac off first. Shellac does go over Z-poxy very well. System-3 may go over shellac but I don't think so, you might want to check on that. Jeff Jewitt in his book & video "Hand-Applied Finishes" is a big advocate of using the traditional method of pore filling with pumice when french polishing and he gets a very high gloss, you might want to check out his book/video before abandoning pumice.

If you do decide to use Z-poxy on a porous wood, you should plan on at least three applications. Todd Stock from The Official Luthiers Forum has some good video tutorials on using Z-poxy, http://www.youtube.com/user/MDLuthier#p/u/2/YYHxMg7n9cI. Up to this point I've used Z-poxy on all the instruments I've built but on the next french polish I do I think I'll try Jewitt's method.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:19 AM
Neil K Walk Neil K Walk is offline
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FWIW I think French polish would be too delicate given your client's track record with guitars. Superglue seems like a better choice!
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwakatak View Post
FWIW I think French polish would be too delicate given your client's track record with guitars. Superglue seems like a better choice!
I was talking with Mary about that. Mark wearing off the finish in one night. I think I will take it to my local friend Billy the sign guy and have him spray it. He does nice work and he's 300 yards from my studio
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:24 AM
Corky Long Corky Long is offline
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Default What's the end goal?

Hey John,

Hope you're doing fine. Glad you're building again.

I'm a little confused by your post. Is your plan to lay shellac over a z poxy pore fill - to accomplish a deep glossy finish? And sounds like you've got a couple of coats of shellac on there already. So is the issue that the pores are still showing, hence the need for better pore filling? Or just that you dont think that a French polish will give the level of gloss you're looking for (some can acheive a mirror finish with FP, but I can't)

Anyway, one option, now that you've already got shellac on the guitar, is to continue pore filling with shellac and pumice, then spray waterborne like EM6000 or KTM9 (if you can find any) on top of the shellac. I know that KTM 9 adheres very well to shellac and I'd imagine the EM6000 does too. I simply say waterborne rather than nitro because I don't think you have a spark proof spraying booth, right? I'm afraid of nitro for that reason, and because I spray in my basement, with an external vent for exhaust and don't want the toxicity in the house.

If you still want to go the Zpoxy route, I think I'd get all that shellac off the guitar - I'd wipe it off with alcohol, then I'd scuff it with 220. It might adhere to shellac, but it might not, too. Then you'd have a mess.

I've used Zpoxy on a number of guitars for pore filling, and while it does provide a pretty good deep glossy pore-fill, I find it a PITA to use. You want to really get it into the pores, but don't put it on too thick or the sanding is a real chore - the stuff is very tough. There's a good tutorial on the OLF on porefilling with ZPoxy - I think Todd Stock did it. You also want to be very well protected with Nitrile gloves and I don't think a respirator mask is overkill. The stuff gives me a headache.

Good luck!
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Old 11-06-2011, 11:32 AM
Corky Long Corky Long is offline
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Default What's the end goal?

Hey John,

Hope you're doing fine. Glad you're building again.

I'm a little confused by your post. Is your plan to lay shellac over a z poxy pore fill - to accomplish a deep glossy finish? And sounds like you've got a couple of coats of shellac on there already. So is the issue that the pores are still showing, hence the need for better pore filling? Or just that you dont think that a French polish will give the level of gloss you're looking for (some can acheive a mirror finish with FP, but I can't)

Anyway, one option, now that you've already got shellac on the guitar, is to continue pore filling with shellac and pumice, then spray waterborne like EM6000 or KTM9 (if you can find any) on top of the shellac. I know that KTM 9 adheres very well to shellac and I'd imagine the EM6000 does too. I simply say waterborne rather than nitro because I don't think you have a spark proof spraying booth, right? I'm afraid of nitro for that reason, and because I spray in my basement, with an external vent for exhaust and don't want the toxicity in the house.

If you still want to go the Zpoxy route, I think I'd get all that shellac off the guitar - I'd wipe it off with alcohol, then I'd scuff it with 220. It might adhere to shellac, but it might not, too. Then you'd have a mess.

I've used Zpoxy on a number of guitars for pore filling, and while it does provide a pretty good deep glossy pore-fill, I find it a PITA to use. You want to really get it into the pores, but don't put it on too thick or the sanding is a real chore - the stuff is very tough. There's a good tutorial on the OLF on porefilling with ZPoxy - I think Todd Stock did it. You also want to be very well protected with Nitrile gloves and I don't think a respirator mask is overkill. The stuff gives me a headache.

Good luck!
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Old 11-06-2011, 12:23 PM
Brackett Instruments Brackett Instruments is offline
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There's a bunch of water based, and oil based pore fillers that will work over the shellac. CA is an option too, but the fumes are terrible.
What kind of wood is it? Do you want a clear pore filler, or color for the pores?
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:13 AM
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Hi Corky,
Still pluggin' along. The new Photography studio has really messed with me time wise. Good advise on the sprays. I will look into them. I have never spray finished. I have a friend with a sign painting shop. I'll see what he uses to paint the guitars he does.
Blindly the idea all along was to French Polish to a gloss. The other night I was watching my buddy play a guitar and he is just so rough on the guitar with a pick that the finish would last him 2 sessions before he'd chew up the FP I would spend a month getting on there!

Pore filling. Its Mahogany. IF I did Zpoxy I was going to dye it black to fill in in black. CA is and option. Does that have the adhesion issues with Shellac also?
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:50 AM
Brackett Instruments Brackett Instruments is offline
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I'd recommend using plain ol sheetrock filler, with black transtint.
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CFUQ8gIwBA#

For this process the wash coat of shellac is necessary so you don't stain the wood black.
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:33 AM
Corky Long Corky Long is offline
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Default Cool filler

Woody - that looks really simple. I like it. What process do you use when you fill with that joint compound? How many spit coats of shellac first? How do you apply the filler? What do you usually finish with afterwards? Will water-based lacquers (EM6000) work? Thanks.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:25 AM
gitnoob gitnoob is offline
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FWIW, I used pumice as a pore filler for my rosewood back. It was recommended as a filler if I didn't want to darken the already-dark rosewood.

For the mahogany neck, I used silex. It filled much easier than pumice and it will darken the pores. Seems to be the same approach recommended by Cumpiano.
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2011, 04:48 PM
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Looks like I have my sprayer. He uses Liquitex gloss from the craft store for filling the pores. Shellac friendly. Once in the white he is going to do a Poly Spray on her.
http://www.utrechtart.com/dsp_view_p...cfm?item=69172
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2011, 06:37 AM
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To you fellas using Joint Compound no offense! This is just having fun....... I just could not bring myself to used wall filler on my guitar. It just, it just....felt wrong! Unless I do Duct tape binding and the build is for Jeff Foxworthy!
I went to the craft store to look for water based fill so I didn't need to strip the Shellac. Like I would have had to had I used z poxy. I went to Lowes (Big box hardware store) and asked if they could sell me black tint. They had a gallon that was $38.00. I figured 2-3 ounces will last me forever. I talked the gal into letting me buy a empty quart can for $3.00. She filled it halfway on a wink and a good luck building that guitar.
Here is what I used


I tried it out on the pickguard first. It sanded off nicely and filled well

I put it on way too thick. Kinda my mantra






Cleaned up with a few fresh coats of Shellac. 1-4 coats it didn't look like I needed any more fill. On the 5th coat BAM HEY LOOK SOME SPOTS YA MISSED

So, this time clear and a very thin application

The grain really popped out. I have a few binding spots I will need to dig out black and put in some Mahogany dust. Other than that. Now for the sides
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