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  #16  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:26 AM
steveh steveh is offline
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If I understand what I hear correctly, Chris Morimoto is still there and is the "shop manager" or whatever the correct term is.
He has a ton of talent from what I've heard but doesn't build independently under his own brand.

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Steve
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2017, 09:29 AM
steveh steveh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHP View Post
So, which of these guys/gals were A+ students and which got a "gentleman's C"?
I know you jest but interesting point.

I've played many apprentice guitars and they all definitely share a common DNA. However, there's a fair bit of variation a few mitoses down the line, both in terms of sound and fit and finish. And price I guess, though none are bargain basement, that's for sure!

Cheers,
Steve
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:01 AM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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It's important though to note that even though somogyi may be having many apprentices and even a shop manager, he apparently still does all the voicing of the top and the true-ing of the neck of the guitar himself from what others have saidm

And whatever it is that he does, seems to work from the evidence of playing it which is a whole level of responsiveness higher than any other guitar i have ever played - including by a couple of his most highly regarded ex apprentices.
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  #19  
Old 01-15-2017, 11:33 AM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Originally Posted by jmagill View Post
I'd go so far as to say that taking Ervin's voicing class might be considered a professional qualification and a sort of 'rite of passage' for those wanting to pursue a career in lutherie.
The corollary of that could be construed as implying that any luthier who hasn't taken the Somogyi voicing class is deficient in some respect.

btw, Nigel, if you press the Edit button in the OP and go advanced, you can alter the title so that Ervin's name is spelled correctly.
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2017, 06:51 PM
jmagill jmagill is offline
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Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
The corollary of that could be construed as implying that any luthier who hasn't taken the Somogyi voicing class is deficient in some respect...
Not at all. It doesn't follow that those who haven't taken Somogyi's voicing class are necessarily deficient, merely that the esteem in which Somogyi is held grants those who have taken his class greater credibility as a professional luthier...
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  #21  
Old 01-15-2017, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jmagill View Post
No doubt. I'd go so far as to say that taking Ervin's voicing class might be considered a professional qualification and a sort of 'rite of passage' for those wanting to pursue a career in lutherie.
Really? I know more luthiers that haven't taken that class than have. I think it is one of the tools available to aspiring luthiers out there, but I don't think I'd agree with that statement, with all due respect.
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  #22  
Old 01-15-2017, 07:59 PM
lizzard lizzard is offline
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All I know is that I have Julian Gaffney's #11. MD in coco under engelman. Wonderful guitar, just stunning.
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  #23  
Old 01-15-2017, 08:19 PM
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Mark Hatcher Mark Hatcher is offline
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I have taken Ervin's Masters Voicing class and I know a number of other luthiers who have as well. I believe most would agree these classes are well worth the time and money. I would highly recommend his class to someone with a number of guitars under their belt and is serious about a career in lutherie. Ervin is a wonderful resource and when he stops doing these classes I see no one out there capable of replacing him.
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Last edited by Mark Hatcher; 01-16-2017 at 09:18 AM.
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  #24  
Old 01-16-2017, 01:58 AM
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Default Chris Morimoto

To call Chris a shop manager is right fundamentally, but I've seen and held two Morimoto's. One is a flamenco guitar built for Ervin and the other was a 00 commissioned for a friend of his...that 00 is the most beautiful guitar I've ever seen.
I expect that every student graduated and current would say that Chris Morimoto is the most talented guitar maker they know. His attention to detail is perfection...Chris is an enigma.
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  #25  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:51 AM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmagill View Post
Not at all. It doesn't follow that those who haven't taken Somogyi's voicing class are necessarily deficient, merely that the esteem in which Somogyi is held grants those who have taken his class greater credibility as a professional luthier...
Indeed, one could even suggest that apprenticeship in particilar has become a key part of the marketing strategy of otherwise neophyte luthiers who emerge in the market with higher Base prices than would normally be expected for such fresh luthiers...
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  #26  
Old 01-16-2017, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Hatcher View Post
I would highly recommend his class to someone with a number of guitars under their belt...
I eccho your comments Mark. There were 11 of us in the class I attended. At the time, I had built north of 50 guitars, one other student had built 20-ish and the other nine had built only a couple or none. Needless to say, those who had built fewest had the proverbial "deer in the headlights look" going on. I got a LOT out of the class but feel we could have gleaned even more if the majority of the class were indeed active builders.
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  #27  
Old 01-16-2017, 06:23 PM
jkostal jkostal is offline
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I thought that I would chime in on this discussion as I believe that I am the only one out there that has taken Ervin's class AND done the full apprenticeship. There are always so many ideas about both and what one gets from them and how they differ.

To start, in answer to the OPs original question, the list provided by Jmagill is the most comprehensive list of who has showed up for the apprentice program. The duration of the apprenticeship has changed over the years, starting with 1.5 years in the beginning all the way up to three years, and lately it has hovered right around the two-year mark due to training visa requirements for those coming from overseas (Gustav, Hiroshi, Tom). Some of the people on the list did not make it through the program, either ending it of their own accord or at Ervin's request, so there are people that came to Ervin's for a few months and then left.

The main reason for the change in length over the years is based on expectations of both the apprentice and the mentor. It takes about 1 year to fully learn and grasp all of the things that you experience in the apprenticeship. You may witness them or experience them faster, but it seems pretty natural that at the one year mark you are able to execute everything to standard but have little experience doing so. The length of the apprenticeship changed in the beginning so that Ervin could have some benefit from the things that he taught by having the apprentice work on guitars for a while after the one year mark, and the apprentice received the benefit of being able to refine their skills while under the tutelage of Ervin or the senior apprentice. The normal apprenticeship entails two apprentices, usually about a year apart in education along with a shop manager and Ervin himself working on guitars. Until 2011, the shop manager was Lewis Santer. While he never did an apprenticeship with Ervin, he has worked with him for over 20 years, and can do everything in that shop without question. Prior to working for Ervin he did apprentice with T.J. Thompson and is an incredible builder and repairman in every sense of the word. Lewis Left in 2011, and Chris Morimoto stepped into that role. Chris finished his apprenticeship as I was arriving at the end of 2008. At the time, there was no junior apprentice as Mark Tripp had left early, and Ervin was writing his books, which took up a lot of time. As a result, Ervin asked Chris to stay on as an employee and teach me. Chris accepted, and much of my instruction in those early months came from Chris. When I left, Chris maintained his status and has been there ever since. While he is technically an employee, he has been building at Ervin's shop continuously since 2006. I can say without hesitation that Chris is the finest guitar builder I have ever seen in my entire life. I hope that one day he will go off on his own, and as Josh pointed out, he has built two exceptional guitars...the OO that Josh mentions is mine, and it is one of the most prized guitars in my collection. I feel very fortunate to have studied under him, and I am the luthier that I am today as much because of him as Ervin himself.

As many of you know, I am a big guitar collector as well. My current collection has 103 guitars in it, with over 70% of those being luthier made instruments. I own guitars by many of the apprentices (Mario Bearugard, Michi Matsuda, Hiro Ebata, Ray Kraut, Chris Morimoto, and Gustav Fredell) as well as one of Ervin's guitars. I have a pretty good idea how each builder is building and what they are doing the same and what they are doing differently. I don't have a lot of experience with Leo, Hiroshi and Juliann's guitars, but the few that I have played have been incredible, and I have no reason to not believe that Tom is following in their footsteps.

So all of this leads me to the original comment about the apprenticeship vs the class. I think that both of them are worthy endeavors, and both will most likely make someone a better builder, but I, in no way, think either is necessary to be an exceptional builder. Both experiences are partly about what Ervin teaches, but a large part of one's success is based on how someone understands the information, internalizes it and executes it. Much like with college, some of the most intelligent people I have ever met have no degree past high school, and some of the most ignorant people I have ever met have some incredible degrees. Experience alone will not make you great...understood and applied experience is what makes someone good.

The main difference between the week long voicing class and the apprenticeship is what is taught and why it is taught. Despite what many believe, the two are completely different.

The voicing class is taught with the expectation that once the class is over, the student will return home and continue to build their guitars, applying what they learned in the class. The class teaches broad concepts that are definitely on an advanced level, and if applied properly, can help someone improve, and better understand, how they are building their OOs or archtops or violins, or OMs. It is not specific to one style or method of building, but rather gives you the understanding of how the instrument works, differentiating between what parts are science and what parts are art, and allowing the builder to manipulate the materials to achieve a desired outcome. I agree with Mark and Tim in that this philosophy and form of instruction differs from what a lot of people teach and there is no one else out there that I know of doing this. I took this class prior to beginning my apprenticeship, and in some ways it changed my entire outlook on how the guitar is built, and what it is capable of.

The apprenticeship touches on many of these ideas, but what we really get out of the apprenticeship is a specific way to build a guitar...Ervin's way. We are not changing things on a daily basis, or doing a lot of new developments...we are learning to build Ervin's guitars, exactly as Ervin builds them. By the end of the apprenticeship, each apprentice is building every aspect of Ervin's guitars with the exception of voicing the guitar. That is something that only Ervin does. We each learn that process by watching, observing, asking questions, and listening for the answers. As such, each of us gets a different experience and foundation when it comes to voicing. While each of us understands how Ervin voices the guitar, and could emulate it, we are encouraged to find our own voice.

It's interesting because in the Japanese market, there have been some people that are critical of the apprentices as not being able to build a guitar "exactly" like the master, which in that culture, I am lead to believe that being able to accurately replicate the master's work is the ultimate form of mastery. But in reality, Ervin does not want a bunch of "little Ervin's" running around... he wants us to take what we have learned, internalize it, and make it our own. Part of the reason we, as former apprentices, aren't really in competition with one another is because we all do things differently. Each of us, at the time of our departure from Ervin's, is building a guitar most like what Ervin is doing at that moment. The minute we leave though, that path diverges as Ervin continues on his path, and each of us sets out to find our own path.

So the apprenticeship is really about learning how Ervin builds his guitars, understanding the approach and the philosophy, owning it and practicing it for a few years, and then he lets us go out into the world and see what we can do with it. The voicing class, on the other hand is about learning the concepts behind how a guitar works and how it can be manipulated and then using that and applying it to the work that a builder was doing before they arrived. Both are incredibly valuable as part of a journey that we, as luthiers take, but neither is required in any way, shape or form to be a good, or great builder. While there is some overlap between the two, my experience after having done both, is that they are completely different.

Didn't mean to write a thesis on here, but I get asked about this a lot and thought that I would share my thoughts!

Jason
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  #28  
Old 01-16-2017, 06:52 PM
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Jason,
Thanks for taking the time to share your unique point of view having participated in both disciplines.
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  #29  
Old 01-16-2017, 07:14 PM
JSDenvir JSDenvir is offline
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Jason, thank you for the insights. I think they help dispel a bunch of myths, and I'd encourage you to post this either on your site or Ervin's.

Or both.

Thanks again

Steve
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  #30  
Old 01-16-2017, 07:25 PM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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Excellent and very enlightening write-up, Jason.
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