So I don't have access to a thickness sander

[LSemmens]

Just for a bit more info on planes have a look here

[mirwa]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Assuming a plane is made with sufficiently good steel - some aren't, the steel is too soft - it is a trade-off between paying someone else for their labor and doing the labor yourself.

I find the planing of a top to be a relaxing process, this includes the sharpening of the steel.

Steve

[Quickstep192]

If you're looking for nice planes, it's hard to beat Lie-Nielsen. They're not cheap, but they're not crazy money either and they are of a quality to last a lifetime. They're also really beautiful.

[Sam VanLaningham]

Hey snow - I'm enjoying your plunge into building.

I built my own thickness sander for about $150 plus motor (which I already have for my buffer). Basically it's hook and loop (Velcro) glued on 5" mdf disks glued onto a 1" steel rod that rests in pillow blocks and turned by motor-pulley setup. I based mine off of pat Hawley's design: https://woodgears.ca/sander/plans/index.html


But If you're wanting a bit of motivation for the hard work you'd put in from hand planing as opposed to sanding, there's some evidence to support that a planed soundboard has better stiffness/weight ratio and improved glued surfaces than those sanded.

Nigel Forster started recommending hand planed tops after reading a peer reviewed study demonstrating that abrasive planing (sanding) breaks down the cell structure of Doug fir deeper than knife planing. Thus we can envision that the stiffness of those spruce cellular layers structurally compromised by the plucking and tearing from sanding is not as high as when cut cleanly by blades. The paper that shows this in photo micro graphs can be found here and is titled "SURFACE AND SUBSURFACE CHARACTERISTICS RELATED TO ABRASIVE-PLANING CONDITIONS".
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1986/murma86a.pdf

As well, there's some evidence that knife planed surfaces make for a better glue joint. The paper showing that is called "KNIFE VS ABRASIVE PLANED WOOD: QUALITY OF ADHESIVE BONDS"
https://wfs.swst.org/index.php/wfs/a...viewFile/94/94


Have fun!

Sam

[Alan Carruth]

Almost any plane can be set up to do the job. However, for smoothing a 'bench' plane is usually preferred over a 'block' plane. The difference is in how the iron (cutter) is set up. In a block plane the iron goes in with the bevel up, while a bench plane has the bevel down, and a 'chip breaker' attached to the iron. The chip breaker (or 'cap iron') does what it says: it breaks the grain in the chips as they come off the wood, causing them to curl up. This reduces the leverage of the fibers in the chip that can cause tear-out. This is particularly useful in softwoods, and figured woods, or woods with interlocked grain.

For smoothing you also want a plane that has some weight, so that once you get it moving it doesn't just stop at the first hard spot. This gets very tiring after a (short) while.

Something on the order of a #4 bench plane is pretty much the norm for smoothing. Bigger planes have higher numbers, in general. A well set up #4 will get you through almost everything you'll need a plane for, although there are jobs where a smaller block plane makes a lot of sense.

It's somewhat surprising how uniform a job you can do taking a plate to thickness. The best way I've found is the one Cumpiano showed in his book; planing on diagonals. Clamp the work down on the bench edge nearest you, and plane away from the clamps. Start, say, on the upper left corner, and go diagonally across from left to right at 45 degrees to the center line. Make another stroke right next to that one, and work your way down. Then go on the other diagonal, starting on the upper right hand corner, and planing from right to left. The important thing is to hit all of the plate every time, even if the plane isn't removing a shaving there at first. Work on one end of one side until you've got the biggest bumps off, and reverse it, so you're working on the same surface in the other direction. Then flip it over and work on the other surface the same way.

Don't ignore the surface you're working on. You can't easily get the plate flat and uniform if the bench top is not flat. Also, a bench that jiggles and 'walks' will tire you out in a hurry. For this job I like a peninsula bench that is fastened to the wall, so that I can get at both sides of the work easily.

Hope this helps.

[rogthefrog]

The amount of information I've learned from this thread is amazing. Thanks OP for starting it, and thanks to all the luthiers here sharing so much knowledge.

[SnowManSnow]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maJCqbtN-6I

I notice the cuts are drawn with the blade at an angle and a fair amount if weight on the front handle (or do it appears).
Something I've read, but it makes SOOO much more sense after seeing it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[redir]

I have a thickness sander but I always hand plane the tops unless it's a mahogany top. I use the thickness sander to get the show face close to my spec then finish off the braced side with a hand plane. My reasoning goes way back when I first learned to do this. I learned that a planed surface is a stronger surface, some would argue better for tone too (I have my doubts). Since the show face ends up getting sanded anyway as part of the finishing process then I don't bother to plane that and risk a tear out.

Anyway... I never really understood using a tooted plane blade or even planning on an angle. Spruce or cedar plane so well you can just take straight strokes and rip off paper thin strips. I use a pencil to mark wavy lines across the top so that I have a visual reference for when the whole top is evenly planed.

Like Charles said planning tops is pure joy.

[SnowManSnow]

thats a really pretty cedar top!
(hopefully I'm right about the cedar haha)

[redir]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

thats a really pretty cedar top!
(hopefully I'm right about the cedar haha)

Redwood

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

I notice the cuts are drawn with the blade at an angle and a fair amount if weight on the front handle (or do it appears).
Something I've read, but it makes SOOO much more sense after seeing it.

Skewing the direction of the plane relative to the direction of the stroke effectively lowers the angle that the plane iron makes with the wood, increasing the shearing action. For hard woods, it reduces, a little, the amount of effort and can, in some circumstances, reduce tear-out.

Zircote is a relatively hard wood: skewing the direction of the plane is helpful, though probably not necessary. (The zircote simply refused to be thickness sanded, hence why I'm hand planing it.) It is more about the ergonomics of pushing the plane through the wood: most of the push comes from your rear leg, not your arms. Eliminating the skewing of the plane requires the waist to turn more so that both hands are on the same plane parallel to the direction of the stroke.

Get a plane, make some shavings. Much is learned in the doing. Start with soft, straight-grained woods, and work up to the hard stuff with whacky grain. Have some fun.

[H165]

flattened the sole

This made me smile, it sounds so simple. I've done it with a stone plate and wet/dry paper, which is how I assume you did it. But this caught me thinking of a bench grinder we had in the die shop.....adding about $3500 to the process

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

What is the best way to thickness a soundboard? Planer ?
Any particular type I need to start working with for this job?


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I use a Wagner Safe-T-Planer for ALL of my planing, rough tree to top thicknessing. I've been using the Wagner exclusively for around 30 years, so I got a LOT of board-feet under my belt. Not made anymore, but there's a import knock-off that's supposedly pretty good. I had 2 Wagners of my own and inherited my dad's 3 plus extra cutter sets, so I'm not changing any time soon. The remaining swirl pattern sands away easily.

[bnjp]

Originally Posted by Rudy4

I use a Wagner Safe-T-Planer for ALL of my planing, rough tree to top thicknessing. I've been using the Wagner exclusively for around 30 years, so I got a LOT of board-feet under my belt. Not made anymore, but there's a import knock-off that's supposedly pretty good. I had 2 Wagners of my own and inherited my dad's 3 plus extra cutter sets, so I'm not changing any time soon. The remaining swirl pattern sands away easily.

I think Stewmac owns that design now. Lots of people use those with success.

The reason I didn't suggest a plane earlier is due to the OP's obvious inexperience using one. Easy to bite a big chunk out of the soundboard if it's not set up right or not sharp enough.

[srick]

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

For what it's worth, as someone who's only done it once, I second the advice about hand planing. The single most important thing is to sharpen your blade extremely well. There are several methods and tutorials on YouTube. What has worked for me is taping patches of sandpaper in increasing grits to a leftover piece of marble slab I had, and wet sanding the blade on the sandpaper. The marble's hard, flat surface gave me a great edge for jointing the plates and thicknessing. I used hand-me-down Craftsman planes from 30+ years ago, and they worked fine after some tuning and a lot of sharpening. You may find some workable ones on Craigslist to try your hand at it on the cheap.

This is the key. the blade has to be sharp enough to shave the hair off the back of your hand. Better planes have thicker blades that won't chatter and will hold an edge well. Once you learn how to sharpen the plane blade, your chisels, all of your hand tools properly, you will discover a true joy in woodworking. Sanding becomes a necessary evil, but hardly desirable.

Rick