Archtop Sound Trade-offs/Options

[Pnewsom]

Originally Posted by Richard Mott

Pnewsom--I think that D'Angelico that Joe Pass is playing in the link you posted is actually an early or mid-period D'Aquisto.

You are right, it is a vintage D'Aquisto, my mistake. However, I think it illustrates quite well how good finger style playing can sound on an archtop guitar.

A lot of it is in the hands of course, and Joe was about as good as it gets.

[Jabberwocky]

Dave, before you give up on your classical guitar spend about $28 on a pack of Thomastik Infeld KR116 Classic S Rope Core. In a nutshell, they are steel strings made for classical guitars.

[Jabberwocky]

Where a carved acoustic archtop differs from a steel string flat top is in its short sustain which is very classical guitar like.

I'd be the first one to suggest the 1930s 16" Gibson L7/L10/L12 or the 16" L4 that followed when the L7/L10/L12 were upgraded to the 17" Advanced model. However, buying anything that old and vintage requires a fair amount of nous and not inconsiderable bit of luck.

The made in China Eastman and Loar LH700 can be good guitars if you sift through many to find a good one.

Stick to the Gibson Lloyd Loar 16" L5 form and you can't really go far wrong. I like the size and proportions and I think that Lloyd Loar got it right.

If you do not like bright, try pure nickel or monel, roundwound strings. I am particularly fond of John Pearse Pure Nickel or Martin Retro Monel.

If your budget allows it, the Andersen Streamline, Trenier Broadway, Nelson Palen 17, Peter Hopkins 17" Monarch can often be found in the $4000 to $4500-ish bracket used. RGC Ribbecke Halfling archtop-flat top hybrid, ~$4000 used.

A Guild Artist Award, Hoboken or Westerly built, with the original DeArmond 1100 can be had for about $4200. A Guild AA with the soapbar floating Guild pickup can be had for $3000 to $3200. A 2013 Guild American Patriarch AA can be found used for $3795 on Reverb.

[DaveLeeNC]

Jabber, thanks for the feedback and 'stuff to think about'.

I have decided (for now) to see if my limited playing skills can manage two different guitars (my classical and ES 175D). And step #1 here probably needs to be some setup work on the classical.

Thanks again.

dave

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Where a carved acoustic archtop differs from a steel string flat top is in its short sustain which is very classical guitar like.

I'd be the first one to suggest the 1930s 16" Gibson L7/L10/L12 or the 16" L4 that followed when the L7/L10/L12 were upgraded to the 17" Advanced model. However, buying anything that old and vintage requires a fair amount of nous and not inconsiderable bit of luck.

The made in China Eastman and Loar LH700 can be good guitars if you sift through many to find a good one.

Stick to the Gibson Lloyd Loar 16" L5 form and you can't really go far wrong. I like the size and proportions and I think that Lloyd Loar got it right.

If you do not like bright, try pure nickel or monel, roundwound strings. I am particularly fond of John Pearse Pure Nickel or Martin Retro Monel.

If your budget allows it, the Andersen Streamline, Trenier Broadway, Nelson Palen 17, Peter Hopkins 17" Monarch can often be found in the $4000 to $4500-ish bracket used. RGC Ribbecke Halfling archtop-flat top hybrid, ~$4000 used.

A Guild Artist Award, Hoboken or Westerly built, with the original DeArmond 1100 can be had for about $4200. A Guild AA with the soapbar floating Guild pickup can be had for $3000 to $3200. A 2013 Guild American Patriarch AA can be found used for $3795 on Reverb.

Whilst primarily a flat-top player, I fell in love with acoustic archtops about ten years ago.

Started with a pressed top Harmony Monterey -

Good condition, pretty loud -lovely wide neck, but subtlety limited by the top.

Then I got an Eastman AR805e (carved top & back, floating Kent Armstrong pup,
and 1 & 3/4" nut) Beautifully made, tonally clean, full, open and well balanced).

I got a couple of Loars - both loud but unsubtle and with build, neck angle and finish issues, so hey didn't last long.

Then, I went crazy, and bought a 16" Gibson, 1934 L4



I got it shipped over from Archtop.com who said it had been very little used but it had hardly any frets left. After a refret it came to life, and I love it.

These two guitars taught me the difference between a '30s rhythm box which works best when driven hard, and a later, lighter topped, more responsive version of, effectively, an early '20s design.

[Jabberwocky]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

...I went crazy, and bought a 16" Gibson, 1934 L4



I got it shipped over from Archtop.com who said it had been very little used but it had hardly any frets left. After a refret it came to life, and I love it.

These two guitars taught me the difference between a '30s rhythm box which works best when driven hard, and a later, lighter topped, more responsive version of, effectively, an early '20s design.

Wow, hey there, good looking! What an L4. Heh, heh, that's classic Joe V. fer ya.

[jomaynor]

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky

Wow, hey there, good looking! What an L4. Heh, heh, that's classic Joe V. fer ya.

Who? I'm not sure if I follow your analogy.

[Spook]

Try reading reviews of Mr Wu / Yunzhi guitars online before you spend more than $1000 on anything. Solid wood, handmade guitars and they build to customer spec's for that price.

[louparte]

Originally Posted by MC5C

You really should try to find a luthier made carved top acoustic archtop to try so you can find out what they sound like. Mine (that I made) has a very sweet, transparent shimmery tone, with a lot of volume, balance, headroom. I can't play fingerstyle powerfully, as a trained classical player can, but it responds well. You can get any neck size, radius, scale length you want with a purpose made instrument, and playing a good one will let you know if that is a path you want to follow.

I am in the beginning stages of a build that will interest you - a fully carved archtop built very lightly, fan braced, and with a traditional classical neck and nylon strings. Designed expressly for fingerstyle jazz for a classical player.

Brian

Don'r give up on flat-tops. Different strings impart different sounds. Try Silk and Steel, or maybe an all mahogany guitar.
I've never heard anyone say an all hog flat-top sounded metallic. Big arch-tops are specialized instruments. They sound different.

[Jabberwocky]

Originally Posted by jomaynor

Who? I'm not sure if I follow your analogy.

Joe V. is the owner of archtop.com . He is whom you got your described as "very little used" but "it had hardly any frets left" Gibson L4.

Let's just say that Joe loves giving surprises. Like a box of short-dated chocs, you never know what you're gonna get.

[Mr. Scott]

Originally Posted by DaveLeeNC

Jabber, thanks for the feedback and 'stuff to think about'.

I have decided (for now) to see if my limited playing skills can manage two different guitars (my classical and ES 175D). And step #1 here probably needs to be some setup work on the classical.

Thanks again.

dave

Hello, Dave.
It seems to me that you have made the best decision with this. Despite what many say, archtops are not, in my opinion, good for any kind of classical-style playing. I know, I play classical guitar and have electric, archtops and flattops. Archtops are a bit too bright for acoustic finger style playing and adding a pickup defeats the object. I certainly agree that a good setup makes all the difference and I think everyone else on this forum would agree with that.
I hope you can find a good tech or luthier. I say that because setting up a guitar is not the same as building one, they are different skills. You want someone who will watch you play, and with whom you can discuss your needs. People like that are few and far between, so I wish you all the luck in the world.