|
|
#31
08-15-2005, 08:29 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best." Henry Van Dyke "It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one" Norman Maclean, 
|
|
#33
08-15-2005, 09:08 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I love this thread. Merely thinking about Esteban in his bolero hat and black outfit . . . having "studied" with Segovia . . . the "guitars" . . . just puts a HUGE smile on my face.
__________________
jonesbrass 610e, 914CE-L1, 354-CE LTD (Maple!), baby, Taylor Classic Electric Guitar, Vox AC30CC2, Fender J-Bass, Carvin AD100D, Takamine Classical, Cerveny CFB-653-5IMX F tuba, Conn 2J CC tuba Gone but not forgotten: 810e, AB-1, 414-CE, Epi Les Paul Custom Flametop, Miraphone 188
|
|
#34
08-15-2005, 09:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
False!! False!! False!!!
There are NO Estaban guitars....NOT ONE being made in a quality shop in Nazareth, PA. Maybe in the hometown of Jesus of Nazareth, but not here in the hometown of the oldest guitar builder in the USA. I have no idea where that notion came from, but it is absolutely false. No matter what Estaban guitar you play, you WILL be holding a very poorly built and finished guitar that is ALWAYS made through a contracted shop overseas and those are not even the better known or reputable shops in those regions.
The facts are the facts and there needn't be any embellishment of them to advocate these guitars They are purely entry level instruments and they are produced in an effort to benefit their endorsers and those offering them for sale. If they were built to benefit the unknowing people who are dooped into buying them with a few minutes of playing by an otherwise widely unknown player, they would reflect even a small amount of skilled workmanship or care in their detailing. ADVICE PORTION OF THE POST: Go to a store and try the guitars out before you decide on buying one, but use this and other forums to get advice from more experienced players and gain an education on what makes a guitar worth its price...or not, in the case of the Estaban guitars, before committing to a purchase. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
|
|
#35
08-15-2005, 09:33 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
PHEW!!! When somebody implied these were being "subbed" out to "a well known guitar company in Nazareth" I about lost my teeth from grinding them. I just can't IMAGINE CF and the boys/gals doing "side-work" for Esteban.
 Post that at UMGF and watch the flames fly. How did THAT rumor get started anyway? Is there ANYTHING to back that up??? I think Kevin Gallagher more or less blew it out of the water, but really...!!
__________________
"It takes all kinds to make a world...including the kinds who think only their kind belong in it." (unknown) "Next To the Word of God, music deserves the highest praise." (Martin Luther) 1992 Taylor 855 2000 Deering Sierra 2009 Recording King RD-16SN ~ "utility" 2009 Martin HD-28
|
|
#36
08-15-2005, 09:34 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Teachers and Students and name dropping
Name dropping, especially when the person with the name being dropped can't be contacted to give validity to the statement, is common practice in any industry and should be carefully considered for the motive behind it.
The more powerful statement wuld have one from Segovia before he passed away dripping with compliments for Estaban's playing. Segovia was known for mentioning his finest and most dedicated students and even for advocating listening to their playing. I doubt that anyone would be able to produce any press in which Segovia mentioned Estaban. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
|
|
#37
08-15-2005, 10:11 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Along a bit of a side track, Segovia was a very big supporter of Christopher Parkening...very impressed with his playing..but you will never see Parkening mentioning that. Esteban? Puhlease. 
__________________
"Use what talents you possess; the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except those that sang best." Henry Van Dyke "It is in the world of slow time that truth and art are found as one" Norman Maclean,
|
|
#38
08-15-2005, 10:21 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
this forum doesn't have a monoply on esteban bashing. any other reputable forum i have joined or visited have the same consensus. 98% negative reviews. sure, there might be some hearsay and jumping on the bandwagon involved, but thats what happens when your selling your musical soul with a junk product. come on, the guys asking for it.
if he just made a halfway decent guitar he could get away with it. i don't know how he sleeps at night. i was watching esteban on t.v. before i joined the forums. i've been playing for over 30 yrs. and i was thinking about buying one of the doggone things for a beater when they were cheaper. i didn't need the amp to sound like metallica. what stopped me was a neighbor had one and i tried it out. i don't now exactly how to decribe it but you know that feeling when you hit a chord on a guitar and that wonderful sound comes out. well this was just the opposite. the guitar looked good as i approached it from across the room, but it just didn't live up to esteban's praise. i couldn't get it to stay in tune and the action was bad. that was enough for me. plus the 1st position fret felt like it was raised to high. i believe esteban is marketing an inferior product and presenting it to the ususpecting public like its this wonderful affordable guitar almost equal to a $5000.00 martin, or something that looks like one. i don't care what your selling, thats just wrong. sure this is a capitalistic society and all that, but where do you draw the line. so dthumb gets a decent one and doesn't understand what all the fuss is about because his is fine. thats great! thank goodness somebody got a good one. i,ve only played one personally but that was enough for me. all the reviews and the opinions on the forums is enough evidence for me. i don't believe there has to be a jury trial beyond a reasonable doubt. the evidence is in. guilty as charged. dthumb would you recommnend an esteban guitar to a beginning guitarist, or anyone else for that matter?
|
|
#39
08-15-2005, 10:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Esteban as a Player
I honestly think Esteban is a skilled and diversified player. Durinh his infomercial, he exhibits the ability to play several styles with some level of proficiency. Rock and Roll and blues are not among those styles that he has become proficient at, but his fraling technique is well executed and his fingerstyle and strongly melodic renditions of songs that he does are enteryaining and can be inspiring for may players.
I certainly admire the fact that he has overcome the loss of the use of an eye...something that no one should ever have to rehabilitate from or adjust to. It has had to have been a life changing and tough row to hoe as he worked his way back from the injuries from such a terrible accident and his efforts and accomplishments are laudible and should be recognized for how truly courageous they are. I don't want to bash his person or reputation, but only want to educate people on how to wisely select a guitar that will serve them well as they embark on the gratifying journey of learning to play guitar with as little frustration or unnecessary discouragement as possible. An instrument that is difficult, uncomfortable or even painful to play will bring the demise of many budding guitarists' hopes of playing at all. What a shame for so many to not be able to feel what those of us who have played for years do every time we find ourselves in front of an audience playing our hearts out for their enjoyment or playing a song that we wrote about or to our wife or child in our living room before they go off to bed. My music has been a huge part of the most enjoyable moments of my life and is continuing as my sons and daughter have begun the journey. I have a degree in both theory and composition and have worked in a load of different venues from clubs and studios in New York and Boston to my current duties as worship leader and music director at my church here in PA and rely on music and the instruments I play to help me along in alot of ways. My goal is to help some folks avoid disappointment and headaches that come from getting less than what you'd expected or could have gotten, that's all. The man Esteban is probably a great guy with deep commitment to his playing who has made some decisions that will certainly help him as he moves to the next stage of his career. Are they the same ones we may have made?...probably not, but who's decision are right for someone else in most cases? Sorry for any indication of contempt or intentional personal bashing...it was honestly not my intention. I humbly bow out of this exchange now, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Gallagher
|
|
#40
08-15-2005, 11:17 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Gracious post, Kevin. I think the negative posts about "Esteban" trace directly to the over-the-top hype of a clearly inferior product (not that hasn't happened countless times before). But, as you note, a novice or uninformed buyer is going to hear all that claptrap about Segovia, and see the camera panning to the 5k Martin and draw some erroneous conclusions.
As to the man himself, someone posted a link that some columnist wrote about him putting in ridiculous hours in a studio getting a new CD together for HSN or QVC to push for the holiday season. I am pretty sure that's where he really rakes it in, and went from a local hotel-lounge muzak performer to skyrocketed success on the shopping networks selling his CD's. He also apparently has a very loyal following among some demographic. I think the writer also mentioned he has light colored hair, in a ponytail, and without the Zorro outfit and sunglasses, sitting in a studio in jeans and a T-shirt, you'd never know it was the same guy. I hadn't heard he was blinded--but he was in a car accident that messed his hands/arms up pretty badly. But the reviews of the GUITAR are uniformly awful: frets falling out, some black shoe-polish like substance to make the fretboard of mystery wood look like ebony, tuning keys that bust off, or won't turn, or won't hold a pitch; horrid action, set-up, finish issues, internal bracing falling off, etc. etc. Hawking that as a "really fine instrument" is no doubt the main source of all the hostility. Like you, I'm bowing out of this thread as well. I think the dead horse is beginning to emit some gaseous odors. 
__________________
"It takes all kinds to make a world...including the kinds who think only their kind belong in it." (unknown) "Next To the Word of God, music deserves the highest praise." (Martin Luther) 1992 Taylor 855 2000 Deering Sierra 2009 Recording King RD-16SN ~ "utility" 2009 Martin HD-28
|
|
#41
08-15-2005, 11:43 PM
|
||||
|
||||
I'm just wondering, how much integrity it'll take, if you are a full time musician making a bare minimum living playing in lounges, etc., when you get an opportunity to sell your cd and some line of guitars (which you know are of inferior quality) on a national level ?
__________________
There are still so many beautiful things to be said in C major... Sergei Prokofiev
|
|
#42
08-16-2005, 06:46 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I dunno but....
Quote:
There is a point, though, that should be made. The majority of the folks in this thread and others like it are experienced players. even those who are not have more than a pssing interest in guitars or they wouldn't be here. Estaban guitars are not for us. Even if all of them were a bit better , they are not for us. The mere fact that we have luthiers, teachers, performers and writers eliminates us from their target market. I have heard absolute horror stories about Estabans from, always, third parties. I, myself, don't know anyone who owns one because I and those I know don't travel in his target market. All of this is just amazing to me. And the reason it is amazing to me is that I wouldn't buy a guitar from ANY manufacturer with who I was not familiar on a sight unseen basis....always the caveat...buyer beware.
__________________
Barrett
|
|
#43
08-16-2005, 07:06 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Steve..
[QUOTE=Kevin Gallagher]There are NO Estaban guitars....NOT ONE being made in a quality shop in Nazareth, PA. Maybe in the hometown of Jesus of Nazareth, but not here in the hometown of the oldest guitar builder in the USA. I have no idea where that notion came from, but it is absolutely false.
Just to clarify this...I don't know where that idea came from originally but, in this thread it was Ramsa who brought it up, I questioned it, you refuted it. Now, that is a problem. I know no more about you than what you have told me. The same with Estaban. The same with Ramsa.Obviously, some one is not being completely honest. Marketing preys on this type of ambiguity and lack of facts. So, if you KNOW that to be certain and can verify that in some way we could put that notion to rest. Not meaning to be rude but, your being a luthier in no way defines your expertise on the subtlies of manufacturing and marketing than My being a carpenter makes me a luthier. So, why do you say that is not so and what do you know about their production that defines them as inferior? As a generality? Information is king. If you want to stop what you see as abusive and improper marketing ...spread truth...not rage or rant...simple facts, not congecture, inuendo or opinion...real hard facts that allow folks to make intelligent decisions on their own. One other thing...I didn't come to ANYONE asking for advise on buying a guitar. After 30+ years of playing I can pretty much handle that...I simply wanted to know, exactly, what all the fuss was about over some small time production guitar that I happened to inherit one of that doesn't suck. THAT'S ALL.
__________________
Barrett
|
|
#44
08-16-2005, 07:20 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Sorry, I'll shut up now.
|
|
#45
08-16-2005, 07:20 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Kevin used to work at a "quality guitar shop in Nazareth, PA" and still keeps in touch with people there. He's probably best source on this forum to be able to say what is and isn't being done at that particular manufacturer.
I think that Ramsa's claims are far more spurious than anything Kevin has said. Ramsa is the one who has claimed that they are made either in the "worst sweatshop in Asia" or at Martin. That doesn't even make sense. Nobody cranking out thousands of guitars from China is going to all of a sudden strike up a deal with one of the premier quality mass-manufacturers in the world (I think their profit margin might just drop the tensiest little bit, for one thing) to "keep up production" and the idea that Martin would be a part of that kind of marketing is an insult to the people that work there.
|
