Mixing.....the lightbulb moment - Page 2

Doug Young · #16 03-20-2011, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joehempel

I dunno. Im stumped. I've used this position for everything. I even went to my car and listened, and it sounds normal. The one with the effects is supposed to have a bit of delay/chorus to it, butvit wouldn't he on the original....hmmmm.

Phase is a tricky thing. Once you know what to listen for, it pops out the minute you hear it. I recognized the sound in the first few seconds of playback. But it can be hard to hear at first, until you learn to recognize it.

I can't really fix the phase on yours, but here's an example to show the effect. Here's a relative in phase sample:

In Phase

Same example with one track flipped so its perfectly out of phase:

Out Phase

It's subtle, but important. With mine, if you played this back in mono, it would be very thin. Some people may even like the out of phase sound, it sounds wider, but it will really get in the way of creating a good sounding mix. This is one of the most important basics of getting a good solo guitar stereo recording. I can't imagine how the problem is occurring with the Zoom, that should be one of the things you don't even have to think about with a one-button recorder like that, unless you did some processing to the "original" track?

Doug Young · #17 03-20-2011, 06:04 PM

Another thought. Doesn't the Zoom H2 have an MS mode? Was that engaged? This sounds a bit like an undecoded Mid-Side track.

joehempel · #18 03-20-2011, 06:06 PM

Ah......I think I like the wide sound which is why Im not hearing a problem lol. But I do need to learn the difference. I dont think I did anything to the original before posting. I think I boosted the left channel maybe. The one pointing towards the neck.

When I get to my computer I will have another look and listen to your samples.

joehempel · #19 03-20-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Another thought. Doesn't the Zoom H2 have an MS mode? Was that engaged? This sounds a bit like an undecoded Mid-Side track.

I have no idea. I just adjusted the record levels made sure all the compression was off and hit record. Its recorded at 96k/24bit wave.

Doug Young · #20 03-20-2011, 06:17 PM

I just checked, and it looks like the MS was planned but not included. But there are several surround modes that may be causing you problems. Check the "mic pattern" setting.

joehempel · #21 03-20-2011, 06:27 PM

The mic setting was 90deg front side of the mic. Would over compression cause this? After listening to this ad nauseum Im starting to feel the over compression effect. So I need to go back and fix that.

Doug Young · #22 03-20-2011, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joehempel

The mic setting was 90deg front side of the mic. Would over compression cause this? After listening to this ad nauseum Im starting to feel the over compression effect. So I need to go back and fix that.

No, I don't think compression would cause this, tho I certainly heard the compression as well.. It'd be interesting to hear the absolute raw output of the H2 with nothing at all done to it.

joehempel · #23 03-20-2011, 07:33 PM

I'll post a link up later tonight. I had a couple takes for one section and I still have tuw audio for that. This has nothing done to it except converting to mp3

joehempel · #24 03-20-2011, 09:48 PM

Okay, I found the file without anything going on with it, it happened to still be on the sd card.

http://www.box.net/shared/xiymj13uca

Doug Young · #25 03-20-2011, 10:02 PM

OK, phase problem is still there, so it's something with the H2. Maybe Larry or Fran or someone who knows the H2 can suggest what's going on. Not having one, I can't imagine how this could come about. The volume is also puzzling, you should certainly be able to get a better level than this.

joehempel · #26 03-20-2011, 10:04 PM

I've NEVER been able to get a good level with any mic without a lot of room noise, and then I can't seem to adequately get rid of it.

The only place I can record is upstairs in a Cape Cod house, so the entire room is open.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help!!

joehempel · #27 03-20-2011, 10:16 PM

So...I inverted the left channel of audio...I could see on the wave form what you meant about being almost 180deg out of phase after closely looking.

I don't think it's gone completely, but looking at my Phase viewer in Soundforge (it's very tiny), the circle seems to be tighter to the center.

I also have adobe soundbooth, that replaced audition, do you know if that has a phase viewer?

Doug Young · #28 03-20-2011, 10:30 PM

180 won't do it, you're in the middle, so it only changes the problem. I doubt soundbooth has a phase viewer (Audition is still around). There are some plugins that do it, try this one:

http://www.nugenaudio.com/phase_scope_vector_VST_AU.php

I think it costs money, but there's a free trial. I'm sure there are others.

Doug Young · #29 03-20-2011, 10:51 PM

Joe, are you recording as wav?

joehempel · #30 03-20-2011, 11:16 PM

Yes I'm recording as wav. 96k/24bit audio

I know it's still out of phase, but I re-did everything, and left out a bit of eq and found out that part of a plugin was giving a bit extra compression and so left out the plugin all together.

Also didn't put as much of the reverb/delay in there.

http://www.box.net/shared/xxk5h4hvnz