Why Do Many Amp-Type Products Seem To Be Missing One Or Two Key Features?

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by KevWind

"The effects and feedback control are good enough that you really don't need your rack for small gigs." Yes I planed on the at least the, T and it would be worth a try but again if the onboard pre's, eq, and reverb are 1/2 to 3/4 as good as the ones on the Langevin there is still is not any compression/limiter function (is there ?) which for me is very a very important feature. In fact in keeping with OP.... IMO it is one of those features that would fall into a must have go to "basics" that if not present makes any of the units "lacking"

You're correct, those effect features are also missing. I tend not to need compression, so it's easy for me to forget it. I guess that needs to be added to the list. I use the gate and compression when I am using the TouchMix, but only because it's there. :-)

I would also add that if you have a quality font end, and don't need their mixers, or speaker networking functions, the Line 6 products are not that much more compelling than lower cost quality speakers.

It does have excellent onboard DSP that switches automatically depending on the physical positioning, and feedback control. So maybe that's worth it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

You're correct, those effect features are also missing. I tend not to need compression, so it's easy for me to forget it. I guess that needs to be added to the list. I use the gate and compression when I am using the TouchMix, but only because it's there. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ha! yes ( Good) compression is something I never missed until #1. I had it and #2 (I learned how to use correctly) and how valuable when used correctly it is in bringing the sound forward and letting it cut thru the ambient room noise (the noisier the room the more important and the more Fletcher Munson comes into play) Now for me it is a "must have" basic.
Also the Fletcher Munson curve is also why for the most part a 2 band low and high, EQ is sufficient ( unless one need to notch/subtract a particular bad mid frequency) but unfortunately most eq on mixers have no Q control and the preset Q is usually too broad to be of much real use for surgical subtractive EQ'ing

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Now that Line 6 you suggested would be an outstanding system The lack of phantom power is indeed a very strange situation on an other wise great system.

Yes! This is exactly what I'm talking about! It gets weird when you start thinking about it!

I was playing through a cute little amp a few years ago in a music store. I think it was a Trace Elliot. I had started to talk myself into it. It was small enough to be very portable, had a lot of nice features. I pictured using it for small gigs and then taking a line out when I needed more and using the amp as my mixer/monitor. I was getting excited....then I realized there was no DI out!

Always one or two things missing!

Matt

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Ha! yes ( Good) compression is something I never missed until #1. I had it and #2 (I learned how to use correctly) and how valuable when used correctly it is in bringing the sound forward and letting it cut thru the ambient room noise (the noisier the room the more important and the more Fletcher Munson comes into play) Now for me it is a "must have" basic.

I know it's far from the original, but I am curious to know how you use the compressor: especially as regards Fletcher Munson is concerned.

Cuki

[hotroad]

I have been a player in this thread and the one I started along the same lines. Open - Road - Matt and I are in agreement on this... No system that does it all.
Question... What systems have 'outs' for each channel separately. This is a big requirement for gigging yet I rarely see it, not even on mixers. P. S. Someone should send this thread to all the sound system builders.

[Cuki79]

That's funny you all mention those features

1) separate outputs
2) Trace audio
3) Compressor (shape button)

That's the TA-100 (last gen)

[Cuki79]

Fishman loudbox artist

has separate DI outs

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I know it's far from the original, but I am curious to know how you use the compressor: especially as regards Fletcher Munson is concerned.

Cuki

Well as I said I use compression to bring the sound forward more in the mix (i.e. the mix of music to room noise). I am talking about judicious use not drastic, some on guitar and a bit more on the vocal.

The reference or connection to Fletcher Munson is not a direct reason or use of per se, but more of an observation of a possible indirect or perhaps incidental, cause and effect connection . Taking note of the fact that much of the room noise is in the range of the Fletcher Munson curves or ( equal loudness contour ,as it is called now) as is a fair amount of the music (particularly as far as the intelligibility of the vocal ) . So it could be said that the room noise particularly within the Fletcher Munson curves the range that listeners are most sensitive to, serves to mask some of the music and intelligibility. Then given the room noise is more or less fixed in volume. So that by a slight raising of overall dynamic level of the music while (hopefully) still not getting into distorting (something helped to be accomplished by compression) and not necessarily just increasing the system master volume. Your are now giving a slightly better overall dynamic music signal to room noise ratio to the listener, and makes the sound a bit more forward to the listener without a significant noticeable jump in volume, as if you were to simply turn the master volume up.

And the advantage to that is you are getting this more forward sound, without simply turning the volume up on your system which almost always results in the audience also increasing their volume.

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

That's funny you all mention those features

1) separate outputs
2) Trace audio
3) Compressor (shape button)

That's the TA-100 (last gen)

Maybe that was it and there wasn't a main mix DI out.

As for the Fishman amp, I'm not sure anyone else does better than Fishman with inputs and outputs. It seems like most of their products have a main mix DI out and balanced outputs for each channel.

I wish they had pole mounts or even mic stand mounts for the smaller amps. I had an old Loudbox 100 a while back. I made a little wooden tray with a speaker stand adapter that got the amp up to a good height. I've seen some Fishman amps with a little kickstand so you can tilt them back at least a little. Not enough to use as a monitor but it's a step toward the right direction.

Matt

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

Maybe that was it and there wasn't a main mix DI out.

As for the Fishman amp, I'm not sure anyone else does better than Fishman with inputs and outputs. It seems like most of their products have a main mix DI out and balanced outputs for each channel.

I wish they had pole mounts or even mic stand mounts for the smaller amps. I had an old Loudbox 100 a while back. I made a little wooden tray with a speaker stand adapter that got the amp up to a good height. I've seen some Fishman amps with a little kickstand so you can tilt them back at least a little. Not enough to use as a monitor but it's a step toward the right direction.

Matt

I recessed a top hat for a pole in my previous loud box mini. It worked great. Hard to reach he controls though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I recessed a top hat for a pole in my previous loud box mini. It worked great. Hard to reach he controls though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Was that hard to do?

Were you in danger of hitting anything important?

Those seem like nice little amps and having the option to put one on a stand would be even better.

Matt

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by open-road-matt

I wish they had pole mounts or even mic stand mounts for the smaller amps.

Matt

Just ask MartinGitDave how to install a pole mount, he did for the Fishman Loudbox Mini

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Just ask MartinGitDave how to install a pole mount, he did for the Fishman Loudbox Mini

Wow, you found that faster than I did!! :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[hotroad]

I use a Pearl drum accessories table for my small amps. Its fully adjustable in height, stable and breaks down. Its large enough to hold almost any acoustic amp....18" deep X 24" wide, felt on top, sturdy tripod stand.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Well as I said I use compression to bring the sound forward more in the mix (i.e. the mix of music to room noise). I am talking about judicious use not drastic, some on guitar and a bit more on the vocal.

The reference or connection to Fletcher Munson is not a direct reason or use of per se, but more of an observation of a possible indirect or perhaps incidental, cause and effect connection . Taking note of the fact that much of the room noise is in the range of the Fletcher Munson curves or ( equal loudness contour ,as it is called now) as is a fair amount of the music (particularly as far as the intelligibility of the vocal ) . So it could be said that the room noise particularly within the Fletcher Munson curves the range that listeners are most sensitive to, serves to mask some of the music and intelligibility. Then given the room noise is more or less fixed in volume. So that by a slight raising of overall dynamic level of the music while (hopefully) still not getting into distorting (something helped to be accomplished by compression) and not necessarily just increasing the system master volume. Your are now giving a slightly better overall dynamic music signal to room noise ratio to the listener, and makes the sound a bit more forward to the listener without a significant noticeable jump in volume, as if you were to simply turn the master volume up.

And the advantage to that is you are getting this more forward sound, without simply turning the volume up on your system which almost always results in the audience also increasing their volume.

Thanks,

Basically you increase gain on whispers and limit the gain on howl: and translate your dynamic range just above/around the noise floor.


Can you confirm?

Cuki