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Old 09-22-2017, 12:32 AM
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Default Buying used, my firsthand experience today

In another thread we have been discussing the pros and cons of buying used.

I have firsthand experience from today to relate in regards to that discussion.

One of my favorite guitars is no longer in production: The Gibson Songwriter Deluxe Standard. I had a great one and foolishly sold it years ago. I bought a second one, NEW, but didn't like it as much (did not regret selling it, other than the losing money part). I have found no other guitar that can do what it does in alternate tunings. Something about the Adirondack AJ bracing, ebony fingerboard, body shape, and whatever else Ren Ferguson did with them. They're pretty darn sweet in 440 too.

After a long dry spell three popped up for sale recently, and two customs, which are the same except with more inlays, and slightly different stylings. So I had 5 to choose from, hooray! I chose the one of two that had a cutaway, which ended up being a custom. The other cutaway was priced way too high and in Japan, with a promise of a long shipping delay.

I bought it from Guitar Center, online, with only a single, grainy picture to go by along with the description I got from the salesman on the phone. He said the front was perfect and the back only had a ding in the neck and that it was clean. I paid what I thought was about $300~$400 more than it was worth. GC won't negotiate used prices until they've had a guitar for a while. It was either pony up or possibly miss getting it, and it was exactly what I've been looking for, for over a year now.

What I got was a dirty guitar with scratches and some kind of glue deposit around the sound hole. The pick guard is lifting (they always do, I expected that). There's some dents in the frets under the B string on frets 1, 2 and 3. There's also some dents here and there that I know that guy must have seen but didn't mention. There's a deposit of some kind of resin or glue inside the guitar too. The action was as high as the Alps.

I put in a new saddle, adjusted the trussrod, cleaned up the guitar, tested the B string intonation and fretting (cause of those dents, which are shallower than I initially thought) and everything is OK there. I'm pretty pissed at GC about the gratuitous description of the condition, and if this was a guitar in production or one that I could get again somewhere else exactly like it, I'd want to take it back.

Those glue issues are going to be tough to solve. But the guitar has the sound. I think it sounds at least as good as the one I had first that I really liked.

So there's my pros and cons. I got overcharged, lied to, and yet still got what I wanted, somehow. For me it's about the sound most of all, because I can fix the other stuff. So, I guess it worked out for me despite everything. I plan to keep it.
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:18 AM
billyfamilyvide billyfamilyvide is offline
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I feel like they're more interested in pushing a guitar out the door than they are customer satisfaction, unfortunately. I don't mean to generalize as I know some gc's have great employees, but it has been my experience with them so that is all I have to go by.

Congratulations on your newly acquired instrument.

Cheers.
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Old 09-22-2017, 01:42 AM
Jabberwocky Jabberwocky is offline
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Frozen, dings and dents you soon fail to notice once you have had the guitar for awhile. They always bother you the first time round. Consider it relic-ked. With a bit of fettling, it will soon look a lot better: Virtuoso Polish or Blom's Legend or Gibson Polish in a Pump.

Congrats on finding the guitar with the SOUND. Now you know you are meant to play the heck out of it with no fear of dinging it.

The part about being overcharged, you can make back.
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:48 AM
Mortimor Mortimor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyfamilyvide View Post
I feel like they're more interested in pushing a guitar out the door than they are customer satisfaction, unfortunately. I don't mean to generalize as I know some gc's have great employees, but it has been my experience with them so that is all I have to go by.
This has been my experience as well.

Earlier this year I saw a used Martin on GC's website that was described as being in "Excellent" condition. The pictures of the guitar were consistent with this description except for the picture of the back, which was far too blurry to use to judge condition.

Since the guitar was located at a local GC, I drove down to take a look. Keep in mind that GC describes "Excellent" condition using the following text: "This product is in 'like new' condition and shows little to no signs of use. Free from blemishes, scratches, and user wear. All controls are completely functional." I found this to be a good description of the guitar's condition except for the back, which had a very long, deep scratch running across the length of the lower bout.

I asked the manager about the mismatch between the description of the guitar's condition and the actual condition and was told "If you are worried about scratches, maybe you shouldn't buy used." This sort of attitude made me wonder if the picture of the back of the guitar was intentionally blurry.
Needless to say, I didn't buy anything that day.

I think it's clear that GC employees use a very uncritical eye when evaluating the condition of guitars, and will do whatever they can to get a sale. Personally, I would never buy a guitar from GC without trying it first in person.
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Old 09-22-2017, 03:12 AM
Oldguy64 Oldguy64 is offline
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I generally buy or trade in the used arena.
I also do not own a “high-end” Instrument.
Since I stay in the “under $1000” realm I make up for “cheap” by being very picky.
And i generally speed a bit of time with a guitar before it comes home with me.
Since I’m not buying top dollar, first considerations are sound and playability.

Yes, I’ve been burned a couple of times.
The Godin listed below has an Epiphone neck because the truss rod in the Godin neck gave up the ghost as soon as i attempted to adjust it.
Now it’s pretty much in-sellable. But is sounds and plays much better than it did.
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Old 09-22-2017, 05:24 AM
HAMFIST HAMFIST is offline
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I have been burned a few times buying sight unseen, particularly from music stores. I have always done better on remote deals with guys from forums like this one. Traded for my current #2 here on AGF. But my #1 found me in person.

And don't get me started on GC ...
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Old 09-22-2017, 05:59 AM
PiousDevil PiousDevil is offline
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Take pictures, call in and raise a stink, get discounted appropriately. Is the glue indiciative of some repairs that weren't disclosed?
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Old 09-22-2017, 06:29 AM
HHP HHP is offline
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My last instrument purchase was used, unplayed, and only pictures on a website to go by. It was a 1993 Flatiron A5 Artist mandolin, not made for many years and in fairly high demand due to its construction.

I had seen it on Carter's Vintage Guitars website. The listing indicated it was tone bar braced which was odd since most Artist models were X braced. I sent a note via the website asking for clarification on the bracing. Got a response right away from Walter Carter confirming it was X braced. I noticed they immediately changed the specs on the listing.

As I was now seriously interested, I went back and looked at all the photos again and I did notice a spot on the lower bout that looked like a chip or some missing finish. Went back to the website and inquired, and once again got a response directly from Walter Carter. He confirmed the worn spot, advised that they had examined the instrument under blacklight and noticed some additional minor touch-up, offered to have his repair shop touch up the worn area, and offered to knock off a few hundred from the price. SOLD.

When I received it a couple days later, I expected to still see a lot of play wear ( typical on a mandolin that was played for 25 years). It actually looked very good. The touch up was almost invisible, other wear appeared minor, and the set up was stellar. Strings looked old so I put on a new set of J74's. On first play, it was the best sounding mandolin I had ever played.

Moral of the story is that it can work out well depending on your own diligence, a good instrument to start with, and a dealer willing to facilitate the deal. Carter's generally is dealing with the highest end of the high end so their efforts on behalf of my mundane little Flatiron were impressive.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:05 AM
Osage Osage is offline
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I can't overstate how big the difference is between buying a used instrument from Walter Carter and buying one from some dude at a Guitar Center. Carter and others like him have built a reputation from years of hard work. The dude at guitar center is making $8.50/hr and gets a small commission from the sale. At $8.50 an hour, you better believe that he wants that commission. His reputation and his business aren't at stake but Carter's is.

That said, I have bought used, sight unseen, from GC but I always expect it to need work or somehow be worse than described.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:10 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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The people at GC looking at used acoustic guitars typically know little about acoustic guitars in general - they are not GC's biggest sellers, and the typical sales clerks are band musicians needing a day job. So they wouldn't notice all those little things that you or I might.
Comments regarding negotiating a better price are spot on - for used gear, it won't happen there until they've had it for longer than 30 or 60 days, and its still up to a manager. If you don't like what you got through an online purchase, bring it back to the local GC for refund, you've got 45 days - but I would always have it delivered for pickup at the local GC, saves you freight cost, and if its not what you want right there at the store, get your refund immediately.
If you do that, the store is stuck with it to try and sell. Check back in 30 days to see if they still have it and you can get it cheaper.
I have got them to throw in some free extras - humidifier, strap, etc when they won't negotiate the price.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:21 AM
Rosewood99 Rosewood99 is offline
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I purchased my Taylor k66 at GC online and they gave me a 30 day return policy. Mine was flawless. Saved over $1000 from new.
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Old 09-22-2017, 07:24 AM
Truckjohn Truckjohn is offline
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Sounds like you ended up with a fantastic playing and sounding guitar that's got a few warts. Sounds like you plan to keep it because it has great tone in spite of the ugly appearance.

There are many worse things in life than a great sounding Gibson guitar with play wear and a few boo-boo's from stupid....

So... First - give the guitar a good cleaning with a good hot, damp rag. The gluey stuff may come right off the finish with a good cleaning.

If the "glue stuff" doesn't come off with a good cleaning and it bothers you - take it to a good luthier and see if he can get it off without refinish.

Then.. Replacing a couple worn frets is hardly major surgery... But once again - if it plays fine, let it be for now....

Play it like you stole it.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:47 AM
kiva238 kiva238 is offline
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Try buying used right here on the AGF. I've generally found it to be a very good experience.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:57 AM
1Charlie 1Charlie is offline
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Whenever I have called GC about a guitar to get their "in hand" description, they have been happy to follow up with multiple photos emailed to me of any specific defects, or shots of the action and saddle height, to help me judge its condition.

All you have to do is ask.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:56 AM
BFD BFD is offline
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In my experience and, as witnessed here, it's entirely possible for a savvy buyer to get everything they want out of a used GC instrument sale. They almost always have good used instruments for sale. But it sure as heck ain't Carter's!
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