DADGAD: Fan frets & 12 fret construction

[musicadivine]

Hi,

I plan to make a DREAD size guitar, lightly build for fingerstyle in DadGad. Idea is: FFrets, scale 24.75-25.50" for the benefit of Bass when tuned down + easier bending trebles... + 12 fret construction to get that "classical guitar" fullness, which I was used to hear - I played moustly spanish guitars in past. I heard that FanFrets will make some stretches more difficult & that 12 fret construction will take away a lot of that nice Bass... !?

What do you think? Is it better to just stick with 14 fret construction and standard frets in 25" scale, or it is worth to try, to get the results I mentioned? Thanks a lot, Cheers.

[Ned Milburn]

Oooohh, oh, oh...

First, disclaimer - I have never (yet) built a fan fret guitar. But, you have to understand that you are throwing out a whole lot of variables in your questioning, and you have failed to consider what I believe is the first and foremost factor - specifically, the soundboard and its balance (thickness/bracing pattern/bracing thickness). Just as a Taylor jumbo will sound different than a Martin jumbo (Taylors tend to sound warm and well suited for fingerstyle whereas Martins tend to be "tight" sounding, for lack of better words, and well suited for bluegrass fast flat-picking), you can build a guitar of a certain body shape with a bias to one pole or another.

A shorter scale can tend to give some more warmth to the tone, but the soundboard still needs to be balanced for the desired result.

Your statement that fan-frets will only help for DADGAD is entirely off base. The differing scale lengths of the strings will surely give the guitar a different character than a standard guitar, but to say any possible tone improvement will only be heard with DADGAD is erroneous.

Also important when considering scale length and tone quality is the gauge of string used. One of my clients makes custom gauge sets for his DADGAD playing so that the strings tuned lower than standard are thicker than standard, returning the total string tension to similar to that of a standard tuning with standard string gauges (of which, as you know, there are a range of gauges in existence). This way, the low D string won't sound so "loose" and will have a quicker response.

So, I would suggest you rethink your starting point in conception for this project.

You can likely get a guitar to sound and respond in your desired fashion without even considering fan frets. A Martin copy small body guitar that one of my clients brought in for service sounded beautifully warm and was ideal for fingerstyle, but not recommended for strumming. A guitar of this nature would likely suit the sound and response that you seem to be desiring.

I am sure others on this forum who have more experience than I with fan-frets will have some useful advice.

[musicadivine]

Hello Ned,

Thank you for reply! I understand your response - my question was not formed in a right way! YES, many things like the soundboard thickness, the bracing, fine tuning ect.ect. will influence the results. Just wanted to hear opinion of some good luthier if 12 fret construction and FFrets with shorter trebles and longer bass can increase the qualities I described in 1st post. So the ideal for me would be to get more fullness & wider color pallete from classicals, but without loosing great Bass & other qualities from 14 fret body construction & Dreadnought shape...

In 12 fret model with FF, the X brace would have to be turned, moved and modified - becouse of new position & angle of the bridge.

I gues I'll have to make them both & figure it out this alone, to see and hear what I like more. THANKS

[LouieAtienza]

I've built exactly two fanned fret acoustics. I didn't want to modify the bracing too much, so I made the bridge a bit longer than normal to accommodate coupling to the x-brace without reaaranging the x-brace. There's a video on YouTube of Paul Heumiller's Somogyi guitar which is a 12-fret 000 fanned fret. I don't know how it's braced however but I think it's a modified x-brace. Michael Greenfield makes a fanned-fret that he says is "optimized" for DADGAD; I believe he uses lattice bracing on his fanned fret guitars. Lowden uses a bridge extension for its angled saddle. There are many ways to do it and it's tough to say which way would work better.

For me the benefit is having a lower tuning without having to resort to using a heavier gauge string. I prefer 12s, but it can get a little floppy on some guitars with DADGAD tuning. With the fan fret I can have a little more tension on the bass strings, and I feel that gives the bass that "tight" distinct sound. I tried 13s with the fanned fret and didn't like the bass as much.

[Quickstep192]

I've seen the video of Tony McManus Playing Michael Greenfield's fan fret and it sure sounds awesome. I've also seen Tony play other guitars and he made them sound great too. What he can do with a guitar is truly impressive. I have a fan fret small jumbo that I keep in DADGAD and I do believe that it benefits from the varying scale. I also calculated string gauges to achieve similar tensions to the "normal" tuning. I also really, really like a small jumbo for finger style.

[BenSherman]

With a fan-fret tuned to DADGAG, would it still beneficial to use strings that are specifically gauged for DADGAD? Or would this be two separate solutions working at the same time (and end up with the detuned strings being over-tensioned)!

[Silly Moustache]

Hi, I'm not a luthier, and know little of such things but a 25.5" (or Martin - 25.4"scale is considered standard scale whereas a 24.75 - 24.9" scale is considered short.

FWIW - I DO have some knowledge of 12 fret dreads however,and I don't see why a slightly larger and more ergonomic body shape should deny you any bass.

Good fortune in your endeavour!

[Howard Klepper]

Originally Posted by musicadivine

Hi,

I plan to make a DREAD size guitar, lightly build for fingerstyle in DadGad. Idea is: FFrets, scale 24.75-25.50" for the benefit of Bass when tuned down + easier bending trebles... + 12 fret construction to get that "classical guitar" fullness, which I was used to hear - I played moustly spanish guitars in past. I heard that FanFrets will make some stretches more difficult & that 12 fret construction will take away a lot of that nice Bass... !?

What do you think? Is it better to just stick with 14 fret construction and standard frets in 25" scale, or it is worth to try, to get the results I mentioned? Thanks a lot, Cheers.

have you built a guitar before? What is your woodworking and mechanical background?

[nacluth]

Zombie thread

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by nacluth

Zombie thread

plus the OP hasn't posted anywhere on the forum in over two years ... I'm guessing he/she never did get round to making that fan-fret guitar.