Haggling over guitar prices

[Wade Hampton]

When Kevin Kopp built one of his K-185’s for me, I supplied the back and sides wood (koa,) the tuners (Gotoh 510’s,) the strap buttons (Schaller strap lock buttons,) and the pickup ( K&K Pure Mini.) He supplied the rest of the wood, the fret wire and of course the consummate skill to build it.

Because I supplied the koa and the tuners, he gave me a bit of a discount. He had to agree to use the wood I’d selected, though, which is not guaranteed with guitar builders. Fortunately, Kevin liked the wood I sent him.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Myopic Squirrel]

Warfrat - I hope when you were giving away those free drinks you owned the bar.
Tended for a good friend, and we had 2 bartenders who were very generous with my friends stock, which coincidentally benefitted the 2.

[b1j]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

I've only really "haggled" on private sales, and then only when I though the price was actually a bit high. I have asked at dealers if they can come down at all, and pretty much left it at that if they said no.

I've also shopped carefully online and bought things for really good prices when they were priced that way on their own.

I have, however, gotten a great number of deals by being nice, understanding, and building relationships with shops and/or builders. People have just --out of the blue-- offered me discounts once I became a familiar face, or after I displayed a certain amount of understanding... without even having to ask for it.

I get a lot of free drinks that way too. Be nice to them, support them, and they're more inclined to give you free stuff or discounts (not that that's why you should do either of those things). During the many years that I was a bartender, I gave away a lot of free drinks... almost none of them went to people who asked me for free drinks (and people did frequently ask for them). High end guitars are different... but not that much different.

I don't know about the drinks, but...yep. Buying and selling is a relationship.

[Dogma]

I can't imagine asking a builder making me a custom instrument for a lower price. I figure that they know what they need to charge to cover their costs and make a living. I could see telling a builder that I need to be budget conscious and asking them to steer me in that direction. It's probably going to be things like choice of woods, binding material, fret material, and finish options, but you never know, they might have something stashed away that they would consider using at a discount.

I could be wrong, but I feel like the arrangement Wade describes may be unusual. Most of the builders I have met and/or dealt with strongly prefer to use wood they have personally chosen for its variety of merits, and that they have stored and cared for. One builder I know states on his website that he has a surcharge on customer supplied wood and will not warranty an instrument made from wood he did not personally choose and store. This does not seem unreasonable to me; these people are in business. I feel like if I want a custom instrument made for me by a particular builder, I want the full scope of their knowledge and skill. If you want a deal, go to a retailer and/or buy used!

[rounder]

I would ask if the price could be lower. Maybe they would say yes. If I really wanted it and they said no, I would offer what they were asking. I think there is a lot to be said for having good feelings with the seller about the transaction for buying something that you love.

On the other hand, I bought a new D-28 back around 1970. I think I paid about $360 with a case for it and retail was about $500 at the time.

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by Myopic Squirrel

Warfrat - I hope when you were giving away those free drinks you owned the bar.

Tended for a good friend, and we had 2 bartenders who were very generous with my friends stock, which coincidentally benefitted the 2.

Well, not that it's your business, but the last couple of bars I worked at, we had generous comp tabs. If I wasn't using my comp tab, my boss would get on me. And the last spot I was the bar manager, and the owner gave me generous latitude to encourage the continued patronage of regulars (and cultivate new ones), so long as the books met his expected numbers

[sinistral]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

Umm, yeah, no... don't do that.

You were the one who said, “Nothing wrong with asking ‘what's the best you can do on this,’ but I guess I don't consider that haggling.” I personally wouldn’t ask (and I doubt many luthiers have any dinged left-handed guitars laying around that they’re looking to pass on at a good price). I consider Kevin Kopp to be one of the “bargain-priced” solo luthiers as it is (anything under $10k being a bargain for someone with KK’s bona fides in my book).

[The Bard Rocks]

I love to bargain on purchases. Once, years ago, I bought a factory second Martin, directly from the shop they had there. We bargained for a while and when it was over, the salesman said, "Boy I do like haggling. Most customers wont do it and it takes away some of the fun for me."

But when having a build done, that has not been my practice. First, I do enough research beforehand to be satisfied with the posted or initially quoted price. I can let them know in a subtle way that a lower price would make it easier for me to say 'Yes". Sometimes that results in a lower price, with no hard feelings. Often, it doesn't, but as we get into the planning and the building, very often I find something extra added for no extra cost or for a discount. In the end, I end up very satisfied with the price and with the guitar.

If the guitar is already built, then I don't mind making offers or - sometimes - asking for something to be changed or added. When we are done, both of us are satisfied. And feel we are friends.

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by sinistral

You were the one who said, “Nothing wrong with asking ‘what's the best you can do on this,’ but I guess I don't consider that haggling.” I personally wouldn’t ask (and I doubt many luthiers have any dinged left-handed guitars laying around that they’re looking to pass on at a good price).

Yeah... taken out of context that's entirely true.

My point was based on the fact that the OP was a bit vague about what they had in mind. Was literally trying to dissuade them from trying haggle with a builder.

[FLRon]

I appreciate saving money as much as the next guy. Lord knows I very rarely pay retail for anything new but will look far and wide for used at a fraction of the cost of new.

That said, were I to contact a luthier about buying a custom guitar, I would not ask for a lower price. Not only does it come across as tacky but the luthier has no doubt set the price as competitively as possible. If I were buying one of his/her standard instruments that they normally build I would ask if that was their best price.

[Mr. Paul]

It has never occurred to me to initially offer full listed price for a guitar in a shop or from a private seller .

It has also never occurred to me to regard a builder's price as a starting point for negotiation. That is their price, and the only flexibility is in my decision to take it or leave it.

[broy]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the replies. For clarification, I'm looking at a Kopp Bird built to Kevin's specs not mine, so don't consider it a custom build. If I was asking for custom, I feel the price is the price.

He also sells the guitars through a shop (acoustic music works) so I would be purchasing through them.

Knowing this and reading all the input, I feel I have a price in mind and will make an offer, see what they can do. Worse they can do is say no. Last thing I want to do though is leave a bad taste in the mouth of either the builder or the selling shop.

Lots of good input, thank you all again.

broy

[Arthur Slowhand]

For me, the initial question immediately raises another one - why should the maker/dealer give you a discount?

My view on haggling on high quality goods that have a fixed price at one or all dealers, is that unless you're offering something in return - ie. buying more than one - I wouldn't expect a discount. I'm not even sure that in these circumstances (buying a single item) I'd even ask for a discount - in return for my lack of respect, I'd feel that the dealer/maker would lose just a little bit of respect for me.
.

[Gasworker]

Originally Posted by jimmy bookout

So, you want the seller to negociate with himself...
What's your answer if he comes back with: "What's the most you're willing to pay"?

Works both ways.

This is always my response. You already know what I’m asking so what are you willing to pay?

[RP]

Originally Posted by Gasworker

This is always my response. You already know what I’m asking so what are you willing to pay?

This is not a trick question, and any serious buyer will be prepared with a reasonable counter-offer. However, having bought a whole lot of guitars over the years, I really can't remember any dealer who has responded as such and often come back with a healthy discounted price...