Which ribbon mic would you choose?

[D41Fan]

Hi folks,
Starting to look at mics and wondering which you would choose between these two?
1) MXL R144 HE
2) Cascade FatHead II

I really like the darker sound of a ribbon. Currently have a Simon and Patrick Engelman and Maple, and soon a Custom Martin Madi/Sitka D41.

Listened to as many Youtube videos but am not familiar enough.

Thanks,
Dan

[MiG50]

The Fathead is superb. Can't speak to the MXL.

[James May]

For studio use, I have found the RODE NTR to be superb and highly versatile.

[H165]

BANG & OLUFSEN BM6

[D41Fan]

Interesting, I was originally looking at the Rode NT1, but to me it didn't seem warm enough. I heard the Fatheads along with a few other ribbons and I keep going back to the MXL or Cascade. Fortunately, neither are that expensive.

Sorry James May, I misread your post. Yes the Rode NTR is a great mic, but way too much for what I want to spend.

One question, if an amp or PA has 48v available, should I still run the mic through a preamp to boost the signal more or is 48V sufficient?

Thanks,

Keep the suggestions coming,

Dan

[philjs]

Originally Posted by D41Fan

One question, if an amp or PA has 48v available, should I still run the mic through a preamp to boost the signal more or is 48V sufficient?

Be VERY careful here...most ribbon mics do not play well with phantom power. I know the Cascade can be used with phantom power (though I don't think that it helps it at all) but most ribbons cannot and should not. To be safe, and increase usable gain, with any ribbon mic, I highly recommend a Cloudlifter. It uses 48v to power an isolating transformer to provide 25dB of gain while shielding the mic from voltage...same effect but safe for any ribbon mic.

Phil

[FrankHudson]

I'll second the recommendation of the Cloudlifter. The extra gain you may need and the isolation in case your ribbon mic doesn't tolerate phantom power being on.

[russchapman]

Here's an active ribbon mic- no worry about phantom power blowing the ribbon, no need for high gain preamps or a cloudlifter! This one is very well constructed- super solid. btw- I have an extra one that I'm selling for $200- with case and shock mount. Hit me up if you're interested.

http://sterlingaudio.net/sterling-st...on-microphone/

[Gordon Currie]

+1 on Phil's recommend of the CloudLifter. The smaller ones look like a DI and are ultra clean while protecting your ribbon.

That's the issue with ribbons - you likely will need to spend (in this case $100-150) more to use them effectively and safely than just the cost of the mic.

For the first choice, that would more than double the cost.

[D41Fan]

Thanks all for the replies. Much appreciated. As you can tell I am not well versed in ribbon mics. I keep reading conflicting stories about them. Some say don't bother with phantom power and others say it is OK.
If I decide to go ribbon(probably will), I will get a cloud lifter.

Dan

[alohachris]

Aloha Dan,

I love using ribbon mic's in the studio, as needed & only occasionally now. They are so accurate & detailed. If you use them in tandem with a cardioid condenser in Mid-Side, you can really achieve some great acoustic guitar recordings - but only if your space is adequately treated.

By nature, ribbon mic's are also fragile. You can't drop them or knock them over on a stage, though many friends tried, with predictable results. For that reason, I never used a ribbon mic on stage for the more than 53 years that I gigged nightly.

The Beyerdynamic M-160 is a cost effective ribbon mic with a long history of success. Not a fan of most MXL mic's (except the cheap but decent SP-1). The Cascade Fathead II is a very good ribbon mic. Moving up the food chain, the Rode NTR is a very good ribbon mic. Up a bit more are the great Royer R-121 & truly great AEA R84. An old man now, I actually forgot that I used an R84 successfully for many years in Mid-Side pattern.

Do a little more homework on how ribbon mic's are constructed before you take one on stage for an acoustic guitar gig in a bar. Don't do it. For recording, ribbon mic's are great.

Good Luck, Dan!

alohachris

[rockabilly69]

I have a set of Cascade Fathead II ribbons that I have successfully used for acoustic guitar recording. I removed the extra mesh layers in the grill and I really liked what that did for the tone. It also helped minimize the proximity effect as I didn't have to get as close to the mics with the mesh removed. I also got two Cloud Cloudlifter Z preamps and they really made those mics come alive!

You can see the mod here... https://openplanrecording.wordpress....the-boof-head/

After a few years of owning the Fatheads I bought a Cloud JRS34A Ribbon that is FANTASTIC and it has a cloudlifter built in!!!

[ronmac]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Dan,

I love using ribbon mic's in the studio, as needed & only occasionally now. They are so accurate & detailed. If you use them in tandem with a cardioid condenser in Mid-Side, you can really achieve some great acoustic guitar recordings - but only if your space is adequately treated.

By nature, ribbon mic's are also fragile. You can't drop them or knock them over on a stage, though many friends tried, with predictable results. For that reason, I never used a ribbon mic on stage for the more than 53 years that I gigged nightly.

That said, I often see ribbon mic's on percussion & for miking cabinets for top talents who have their own live sound guys. In fact, I just saw an AKG 414 in ribbonon two drum's in Billy Cobham's kit the other night at the Blue Note Honolulu. However, that's about it for live acoustic applications, IMO, at least in what I've seen.

The Beyerdynamic 160 is a cost effective ribbon mic with a long history of success. Not a fan of most MXL mic's (except the cheap but decent SP-1). The Cascade Fathead is very decent. Several multi-pattern LDC mic's provide a ribbon mode - like the AKG 414XLSII - another all-around classic, or the Mojave MA-300 & many others. The CAD M179 LDC is a cheaper multi-pattern mic with a ribbon setting that works well too as does, yes, the Rode NTR.

For recording, I combine a matched pair of Schoeps CMC6's in M-S, one with an MK-41 hypercardioid capsule, the other with the MK-8 ribbon cap, set in close tandem, in an Audio-Technica 8410A low-profile shockmount. That does it for me. My favorite M-S mic's for acoustic guitar. Sometimes, the placement can be tricky using a cardioid & ribbon together.

Do a little more homework on how ribbon mic's are constructed before you take one on stage for an acoustic guitar gig in a bar. The first time a drunk knocks your ribbon mic stand over on your break may make up your mind for you. That'll definitely create a dark sound for you. For recording, ribbon mic's are great.

Good Luck, Dan!

alohachris

Chris, so as not to confuse folks, you should edit the blue bits to make sure there is clarity between the terms "ribbon mode" (there is no "ribbon mode" using a condensor mic capsule) and "figure eight pattern".

"Ribbon mic" refers to a style of dynamic microphone that utilizes a very thin ribbon stretched within a motor assembly, usually having a figure of eight pickup pattern.

A condensor mic capsule having a figure of eight pattern is not a ribbon capsule.

[Tico]

Originally Posted by ronmac

Chris, so as not to confuse folks, you should edit the blue bits to make sure there is clarity between the terms "ribbon mode" (there is no "ribbon mode" using a condensor mic capsule) and "figure eight pattern".

"Ribbon mic" refers to a style of dynamic microphone that utilizes a very thin ribbon stretched within a motor assembly, usually having a figure of eight pickup pattern.

A condensor mic capsule having a figure of eight pattern is not a ribbon capsule.

Thank you.

I have AKG 414s and am aware one of its pick up patterns is figure 8, but reading, " ... a 414 in ribbon" blew my mind.
For a moment I thought maybe AKG once made a version of their 414 with both a condenser capsule and a ribbon.

Pick up pattern and element type in a mic design are two totally different things.
Perhaps studio pros use the term 'ribbon mode' and figure 8 interchangeably.

[ronmac]

Originally Posted by Tico

Pick up pattern and element type in a mic design are two totally different things.
Perhaps studio pros use the term 'ribbon mode' and figure 8 interchangeably.

No, they don't.