“Hackintosh” experience...?

[Larry Pattis]

“Hackintosh” experience...anyone?

I’m trying to gather data/info from people with direct build experience.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

“Hackintosh” experience...anyone?

I’m trying to gather data/info from people with direct build experience.

Not recently, became not worth my time, and getting more and more that way.

To be fair I'll disclose that I crave modern high end displays like a Mac "Retina", need reliability, and want spare or doodling sort of time to be for playing guitar or exercise. A non-Mac with quality display and good storage is not cheap.

It might be something one would enjoy if they want to know more about hardware and operating systems.

[David Eastwood]

The legality of such things seems, at best, questionable.

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by imwjl

Not recently, became not worth my time, and getting more and more that way.

To be fair I'll disclose that I crave modern high end displays like a Mac "Retina", need reliability, and want spare or doodling sort of time to be for playing guitar or exercise. A non-Mac with quality display and good storage is not cheap.

It might be something one would enjoy if they want to know more about hardware and operating systems.

I have two 27" Thunderbolt displays that function quite nicely, and...I just need something that Apple doesn't currently make to get my work done; that is, a modern, mid-powered desk machine without built-in monitor.

I don't want to spend $5K on a new iMacPro...don't need the monitor, and don't need quite that much processing power. A lesser iMac still has the built-in monitor, and a lot less flexibility.

Originally Posted by eatswodo

The legality of such things seems, at best, questionable.

Not at all.

Using a purchased OS, and with all parts (Intel, etc.) available via their respective manufacturers on Amazon (and other retailers), etc. for building gaming machines, PCs, etc.

Assemble components, add OS (legally) and off you go. It is illegal to sell or contract-to-assemble-for-sale, from what I have seen.

I need a desk machine, but not their monitor.

Last MacPro was released in 2013...and while you can still buy them, they are stupidly priced.

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

Not at all.

Many online opinions differ. For example:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-illegal-...aka-Hackintosh

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7551773

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...ead-this-first

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Many online opinions differ. For example:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-illegal-...aka-Hackintosh

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7551773

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...ead-this-first

Seen 'em.

The Apple link (your middle URL) is off their website...I would expect that.

Lots of discussion/info here:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/forums/

YMMV.

[imwjl]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

I have two 27" Thunderbolt displays that function quite nicely, and...I just need something that Apple doesn't currently make to get my work done; that is, a modern, mid-powered desk machine without built-in monitor.

I don't want to spend $5K on a new iMacPro...don't need the monitor, and don't need quite that much processing power. A lesser iMac still has the built-in monitor, and a lot less flexibility.




Not at all.

Using a purchased OS, and with all parts (Intel, etc.) available via their respective manufacturers on Amazon (and other retailers), etc. for building gaming machines, PCs, etc.

Assemble components, add OS (legally) and off you go. It is illegal to sell or contract-to-assemble-for-sale, from what I have seen.

I need a desk machine, but not their monitor.

Last MacPro was released in 2013...and while you can still buy them, they are stupidly priced.

A Retina iMac is powerful at half the price. I got one recently and love it. Few people real need for the Pro models.

A Mini is great and inexpensive.

What do you do that can't be done with those common models?

[philjs]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

I have two 27" Thunderbolt displays that function quite nicely, and...I just need something that Apple doesn't currently make to get my work done; that is, a modern, mid-powered desk machine without built-in monitor.

I don't want to spend $5K on a new iMacPro...don't need the monitor, and don't need quite that much processing power. A lesser iMac still has the built-in monitor, and a lot less flexibility.

Why not consider a mini, Larry? You can configure them with a 3GHz i7, 16Gb Ram and a 512Gb or 1 Tb SSD. They have gigabit ethernet, 2 thunderbolt (+HDMI), 4 USB 3 and an SDXC port. They're also dead quiet don't take up much desk space.

Phil

[jhmulkey]

There's a reason that Mac forums ban discussion of Hackintosh...because it violates the licensing agreement for MacOS that you must agree to when installing. People often forget that when you purchase software, you're actually purchasing a license to use that software, not the rights to do whatever to want with it.

http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1013.pdf

J. Other Use Restrictions. The grants set forth in this License do not permit you to, and you agree not to, install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-branded computer, or to enable others to do so.

Legality issues aside, it's clearly dishonest to violate an agreement. I'd sure hope we'd all base morality on doing what is right rather than "will I be legally punished for it or not?"

You can always purchase a used Apple computer or get the Mini like Phil suggested. In fact, the Mini seems to be exactly made for your situation.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

“Hackintosh” experience...anyone?

I’m trying to gather data/info from people with direct build experience.

I don't have direct experience but know a few people who do.
I think a lot depends on exactly what applications (other than the OS) you may be wanting to run
Their experience has been mixed in terms of problems.

Do the outputs on the Mac mini not suit your display needs ?

As far as legality I think as usual there is some confusion on the terminology and how it may or may not directly apply.

While using a Hackintosh to run Apple OS is a violation of the Apple "Terms of use Agreement" and means Apple can legally refuse to support the use of the software on non Apple hardware
However as far as I know it has not yet been adjudicated, as statutorily illegal.

I am not attorney but I am guessing the reason Apple has not and probably will not bother to take any legal actions is:
First a " Terms of use Agreement" is not a State or Federal statute.
It is a private contract
And breach of private contract can occur without being automatically illegal, it simply voids the contract.
It depends on the particular circumstances of the agreement and the violation .

For example, I don't remember the particulars but in general, I remember reading about a court case where the court ruled that violating the software Terms of Agreement, per se, was not illegal. But in this particular case the recoding of the software, to enable it to be used to bypass certain particular coding restrictions ( If I remember correctly ) which restricted access to a specific website may be illegal, depending on the specific circumstances.

[tbeltrans]

Having never heard of "hackintosh" until this thread (thanks Larry!), I don't have an opinion or experience for the OP. However, I did follow some links and did some googling to find out more.

This sounds like a lot of fun, hacking together your own hardware to run Apple's OS. I have had years of a good career with Linux (software engineering in the embedded Linux world) and had fun with it at home too. As I get older, building my own hardware, my own guitar pedals, etc., has lost its appeal, but a major portion of my life has been doing that kind of stuff.

As for Apple products, it seems to me that in order to really benefit, you have to become a part of Apple's ecosystem (i.e. phones, iPad type products, laptops, desktops, etc.). Especially for those not wanting to mess around with the hardware, Apple seems to do quite well, and non-tech folks I know seem to love Apple for that. For me, it would be much expense to get into all that this late in the game.

I won't be getting involved in hackintosh, but it does seem like a lot of fun for those still into the DIY thing.

Tony

[Imbler]

Originally Posted by jhmulkey

There's a reason that Mac forums ban discussion of Hackintosh...because it violates the licensing agreement for MacOS that you must agree to when installing. People often forget that when you purchase software, you're actually purchasing a license to use that software, not the rights to do whatever to want with it.

http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1013.pdf



Legality issues aside, it's clearly dishonest to violate an agreement. I'd sure hope we'd all base morality on doing what is right rather than "will I be legally punished for it or not?"

You can always purchase a used Apple computer or get the Mini like Phil suggested. In fact, the Mini seems to be exactly made for your situation.

I don't think it is necessarily dishonest.
For example when I buy a new car, the warranty is included as part of the cost of the car. Were I to use my new car for road racing after installing high performance components I have violated the warranty agreement.
It would only be dishonest if I then made a warrantee claim.

I don't see Apple suffering any damage if you use legally purchased software on your own equipment provided you don't hold them liable for problems or expect any software support from them.

[M Hayden]

I’ve done it. Component choice is key to ensure device support,and Apple has made that more difficult via sometimes requiring specific firmware levels.

Nonetheless, it’s not especially difficult, but it’s time consuming.

[Larry Pattis]

Thanks to *all* for the cogent and thoughtful posts here.

The problem with the Mac-mini is that it's likely less powerful than my 5 y.o. MacBookPro. Max'ed out the MM uses a dual-core i7 cpu...the MBP has the same i7 cpu but as a quad-core (admittedly the clock-speed is a bit less, but overall processing power is likely better with the 4-core).

The MM maxes out at 16GB RAM, which is also what I have on my MBP...I want to double, or even quadruple that. It's hard to compare video/graphics cards...not sure which is better. The 1TB max. for SSD storage on the MM is also equivalent to my old MBP...with a custom tower I could easily double that, or even quadruple (or more) with a RAID system.

The only things the MM has going for it, AFAICS, is in not paying for an unnecessary video-screen and the Tbolt ports. Not enough processing power for working with large-ish video files.

Fully tricked out the MM is $2K...and for what, comparatively?

That's my thinking here.

The jury is out, in regards to my final decision about moving forward on this idea.

I am still trying to understand just-enough about the hardware to put myself in a position to think I can build it myself. Then I have to think about the OS, and the required modifications...all of which seem *fully* detailed on the TonyMac forum/site. Getting direct/reliable help there is also a possibility, but I would hate to rely on forum-responses there (!) for anything critical...even if it's just a timeliness-of-help problem. I want a friend I can back-channel with for problems...hence my posts here...


EDIT: Matt, just saw your reply. I might shoot you an email...!

[jhmulkey]

Originally Posted by Imbler

I don't think it is necessarily dishonest.
For example when I buy a new car, the warranty is included as part of the cost of the car. Were I to use my new car for road racing after installing high performance components I have violated the warranty agreement.
It would only be dishonest if I then made a warrantee claim.

I don't see Apple suffering any damage if you use legally purchased software on your own equipment provided you don't hold them liable for problems or expect any software support from them.

The warranty analogy doesn't work, because the agreement was for the warranty, not the use of the car. You didn't sign any agreement not to street race, but only that the warranty would not cover you should you street race.

I'm not sure how clicking "I agree" to the licensing agreement when you don't agree to abide by it could possibly be construed as anything but dishonest. I'm not saying it's the worst thing you could ever do or anything, but it is by definition not honest.

I think the obvious reason for Apple's stipulation is to protect their hardware sales and ensure a better user experience. People might not like it, but then again they have the option to use another OS without those stipulations.

I don't really want to argue about this, as I think that Apple's licensing agreement is pretty clear and not up for debate, so I'll let it go at that.