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  #1  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:10 AM
Dulci Dulci is offline
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Default Open D chords above first position?

I'm working on the Emmylou Harris song Prayer in open D... a nice introduction to learning chords in that tuning. I've got the basic first position chords. The only variety in the guitar accompaniment is when she moves the basic three chords farther up the fretboard. I'm trying to figure out those chords in the higher position. I cannot find any charts for these in open D tuning. Does anyone have any ideas? I've watched the videos of her playing it but you don't get a close look at her guitar playing. It's around 2:00 in this video.

thanks!
Donna

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AfN0Mnh...%3DAfN0MnhVfkY
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2013, 10:41 AM
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She is using just a couple of fingers to fret notes up the neck. Try fretting notes up the neck to get the same pitches. It is good practice for your ear and for figuring out the next tune.
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Old 07-07-2013, 11:06 AM
Dulci Dulci is offline
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Yes I'm trying to do that. In another video I thought she had some chord shapes up there. Thanks
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Old 07-07-2013, 02:23 PM
JanVigne JanVigne is offline
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Best thing, IMO, is to figure out the notes you need to make the chords in first position and then find them up the neck. You may need to use a finger or two to mute some strings.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:10 PM
Gcunplugged Gcunplugged is offline
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In this case, you're looking for D, F#, and A.

I don't routinely use Open D tuning, so can't give you the chord shapes. But any combination of those note (especially that contains all 3) should work.

hope that helps,
GC
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:17 PM
Dulci Dulci is offline
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I ended up drawing a map of the fretboard in D tuning. I know what the chord structures are and I'd rather look at that than just plunk around trying to find notes. Outside of the basic chords , I really can't quite hear what she's doing for the little guitar break on that video. It's actually out of sync at that point.

But hey I found something new. I rented an instructional video about playing in D tuning from Amazon. I've waisted money on a few instructional DVDs, waited for them to be mailed etc. this one I have playing on my ipad for 7 days of acccess. $1.99 or buy it for $10.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulci View Post
I ended up drawing a map of the fretboard in D tuning. I know what the chord structures are and I'd rather look at that than just plunk around trying to find notes. Outside of the basic chords , I really can't quite hear what she's doing for the little guitar break on that video. It's actually out of sync at that point.

But hey I found something new. I rented an instructional video about playing in D tuning from Amazon. I've waisted money on a few instructional DVDs, waited for them to be mailed etc. this one I have playing on my ipad for 7 days of acccess. $1.99 or buy it for $10.
Do pluck around and find notes - it is often the fastest way to figure out things and provides ear training to boot.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:42 PM
Dulci Dulci is offline
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I'm all for ear training as that's largely how I play my hammer dulcimer. But I'd like to understand a little bit about the structure when I am in this alternate tuning.
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Old 07-08-2013, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dulci View Post
I'm all for ear training as that's largely how I play my hammer dulcimer. But I'd like to understand a little bit about the structure when I am in this alternate tuning.
It's always good to know stuff in the long run - everything if you have the time. For your request about this particular song there is a more direct approach.
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:11 PM
Dulci Dulci is offline
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i actually found the answer to my question in this DVD/download product by Larry Allen Brown. I just rented the download for a week like you would a movie. He teaches patterns and zones of two finger chords to produce in D tuning. It's a neat system ...probably used by guitarists all the time in that tuning. I'm pretty sure that is what Emmylou is doing in that song. You can move two fingers around in two simple chord shapes within zones all up and down the fretboard. It works specifically because of that tuning. I can almost look like I have a clue about what I'm doing!
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulci View Post
i actually found the answer to my question in this DVD/download product by Larry Allen Brown. I just rented the download for a week like you would a movie. He teaches patterns and zones of two finger chords to produce in D tuning. It's a neat system ...probably used by guitarists all the time in that tuning. I'm pretty sure that is what Emmylou is doing in that song. You can move two fingers around in two simple chord shapes within zones all up and down the fretboard. It works specifically because of that tuning. I can almost look like I have a clue about what I'm doing!
That's great - congrats. Like I pointed out in my first post, it's two fingers moving around.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:37 PM
Dulci Dulci is offline
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I know, you were right. Two fingers moving around the other open strings. It just helps me to think about it with some structure. He breaks it down on his DVD into a couple patterns, Then goes through the seven chords of the scale. Easy to work on improvising your own arrangements. I guess that's the fascination with these open tunings.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulci View Post
I know, you were right. Two fingers moving around the other open strings. It just helps me to think about it with some structure. He breaks it down on his DVD into a couple patterns, Then goes through the seven chords of the scale. Easy to work on improvising your own arrangements. I guess that's the fascination with these open tunings.
Whatever works best for the individual. Memory is a big bugaboo in learning and performing pieces of music. Any method that helps mitigate that is valuable. Although I read music and always used classical guitar scores when I played that type of music, I go largely by ear when composing music and many times when figuring out finger style pieces.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulci View Post
I know, you were right. Two fingers moving around the other open strings. It just helps me to think about it with some structure. He breaks it down on his DVD into a couple patterns, Then goes through the seven chords of the scale. Easy to work on improvising your own arrangements. I guess that's the fascination with these open tunings.
Hi Dulci...

Emmylou Harris was playing parallel 6ths on the song, and they are not limited to Open tunings. The chords come as a biproduct of inserting the right open strings to form the chords.

And any parallel intervals (3rds, 6ths, and 10ths being most common) only have two patterns on that particular pair of strings. One pattern will be one fret further apart than the other, depending on which strings you are on. 3rds, 6ths and 10ths are the interval the notes are separated by.

Here is a diagram of Parallel scales in key of G that will work in standard tuning and key of G. They can be extrapolated to other keys...feel free to download and use it if it helps...the numbers are the finger you use to play the intervals. One finger is just riding up the string, and the other finger alternates when moving from the CLOSE to the OPEN position.




The root position is circled on these. Once you are on the root position to play the scale sequence, you simply switch to the other position and work away from the root position in pairs.

To play an ascending scale run, if the root position is the CLOSE one, Play the Root then switch to the OPEN one for two notes, then the close for two, then the open for two and you are back at the root position an octave higher.

Once you get these type runs organized you are well on your way to expanding simple melodies into chord melody runs. Runs do not have to begin with the root position (Emmylou's opening run did not start with the root position).

Here is an example I put up on my site for students in 2008 which is mostly comprised of solo passages, and parallel 3rds, 6ths, and 10ths.

Oh, I'm playing in Dropped D, in the key of D, so all the parallel runs are in the key of D scale runs.

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My intent in posting this is so you can figure out your own runs in any key, and not just limit yourself to the ones in Open G, Open D etc.

Hope this adds to the discussion, and helps you organize a bit more...

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  #15  
Old 07-08-2013, 06:26 PM
Dulci Dulci is offline
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Wow thanks for all that! I think I follow! I'll have to study your chart for a while. Plus I want to watch your other videos about vibrato and barre chords. That is the style of playing I was thinking of. Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that!
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