Play chords up neck

[giantkiller8]

Hi
i am a newbie and I really admire people who can play open chords up the neck. I hv searched the net extensively and i have come up with mainly barre chords ( which i know) and just a handful of simple, open chords further up like C,D and E chords shapes etc.

Where is a good place to learn to be liberated from the first position?

And how do i put the few open chords (esp those with very long and complex names) that i know into a nice progression?

Tks a lot

[delb0y]

Open chords up the neck? Not exactly sure what you mean - you say you play simple shapes like C, D and E up the neck. Do you mean you're strumming, say, an E shape at the 8th fret:

0 9 9 8 0 0 (low string to high)

This would be a B barre hcord (using an E shape) but without the barre - thus letting the open strings ring.

If this is what you're already doing then I think you've already answered your own question. If it's not what you're doing then try experimenting with this. The E shape sound nice at the A position, too,

0 7 7 6 0 0

where the open B string gives it a 9th sound.

Then you can drop down to the regular E position - and lo and behold a nice little chord sequence using an open chord up the neck

Try moving an open C chord up two frets - didn't REM use that in Losing My Religion? Or was it Man on the Moon? Anyway it's used in many a finger picking song. Move all the open chords around in this way and let your ears be the judge of what you've found.

Kind regards
Derek

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by giantkiller8

Hi
i am a newbie and I really admire people who can play open chords up the neck. I hv searched the net extensively and i have come up with mainly barre chords ( which i know) and just a handful of simple, open chords further up like C,D and E chords shapes etc.

Where is a good place to learn to be liberated from the first position?

The paradoxical answer is that CAGED will liberate you .
Check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuIC...qLVerP&index=1

The idea is that every major chord (all 12) can be played as 5 overlapping shapes all the way up the neck, based on the 5 common open shapes, running in that C-A-G-E-D order (different chords start at a different point in the order).

Originally Posted by giantkiller8

And how do i put the few open chords (esp those with very long and complex names) that i know into a nice progression?

That's a very different question - and a big one!

You're really asking about composition, songwriting - and whole books have been written about that (and still only cover a tiny proportion of the tricks and formulas).

The best answer is just to study as many songs as you can. Look for common formulas (chords that often go together, sequences that crop up in lots of songs) and check how they sound - those are your standard building blocks. Then listen for songs with unusual changes and check what they are: how did they do that? Look for songs that use those "long and complex" chords you're talking about.
You can steal chord changes - they're not copyright. Just listen to as much music as you can (obviously the stuff you like, but other stuff too), and listen out for anything that catches your ear. What IS that? Look it up! (or work it out by ear if you can.)

And of course, don't forget simple trial and error. Just mess around with those chords you know, in various permutations. Make sure you take a note of changes you discover that you like, in case you forget them in the next bit of noodling.
You don't need theory here. Your ears know what's right and wrong, and successful songs follow all the rules: they demonstrate theory in practice, which is the only way you need to know it.

[delb0y]

Is the CAGED system not based on closed chord shapes - as opposed to open chords. I may be misreading or misinterpreting GiantKiller's question but I thought he was looking for open chords up the neck - which to me means chords that retain some open strings. Probably just me...

Derek

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by delb0y

Is the CAGED system not based on closed chord shapes - as opposed to open chords. I may be misreading or misinterpreting GiantKiller's question but I thought he was looking for open chords up the neck - which to me means chords that retain some open strings. Probably just me...

Derek

You could be right...

[AX17609]

I asked this question, myself, and have arrived at the following answer. There are essentially four methods for learning chords up the neck. The first is the CAGED system, which links the C,A,G,E and D chords forms in an interlocking pattern in five positions up the neck. This system makes extensive used of barre chords.

The second is a 4-tone system that has you learning 20 basic positions in 5 five different "string sets". From these basic positions you create all the chords you could ever want by moving one of the tones up or down a half step. Interesting, this system can be linked together in CAGED format and does not use any barre chords.

The third is a note system that has you memorizing all the notes on the fretboard, all of the notes in all the chords, and putting the two together on an as needed basis. This system may or may not use barre chords as needed and desired, and it may use open strings as needed and desired.

A fourth method, which doesn't take any study at all, is to just noodle around and play what sounds interesting. You build up a personal library of interesting sounds. I suspect this method is used by more people than anyone would care to admit.

[Blueridgebound]

AX where would you find info on the "4 tone" system.

Steve

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by Blueridgebound

AX where would you find info on the "4 tone" system.

Steve

I learned it from an SGGW DVD by Rolly Brown entitled, "A Nuts and Bolts Approach to Chords", but there must be other sources, because it's quite an old system.

You can also get the gist of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSfzKflDoLI

The YouTube video describes one of the 5 string sets.

[JanVigne]

"
Where is a good place to learn to be liberated from the first position?

And how do i put the few open chords (esp those with very long and complex names) that i know into a nice progression?"






First, as a newbie, don't rush things.

Playing in various positions will come to you as you need the ability to do so. Playing an E7 at the ninth fret will sound rather silly unless it is placed in context of other happenings around the ninth fret. In other words, if you're having a hamburger and fries for dinner, it wouldn't make sense to stop half way through your burger to suddenly eat your pie. If you wanted to visit your friend who lives two blocks over, you wouldn't jump on the 635 loop and travel thirty five miles out of your way. Certain things we do in life are structured in ways which make the most sense. So too is playing up the neck.


Now, you could learn some of Robert Johnson's fingerings which will take you up and down the neck. But that would only teach you how to play a song. Not how to play guitar in a larger concept. Knowing why you would want to use an up the neck position and when it is appropriate to do so is more important in the broader sense of playing guitar than is just being able to place your fingers on the ninth fret.



I see your question as not too different than asking how - as a newbie - you could solo like some guitar hero you have. They move up and down the neck with ease and complete command. Why can't you play like that as a newbie?

Because playing like that requires skills and knowledge which are typically not possessed by newbies.

It begins by studying the scale forms up and down the neck and understanding how those forms fit together along with what notes sound best when played in sequence. It requires a complete knowledge of the entire fretboard. Most newbies simply do not possess that knowledge or the skills to put them to use.

Therefore, grasshopper, your answer lies in when you can snatch the pebble from the master's hand. That requires sacrifice, study, practice and most of all patience.



If you would like to explore chords up the neck, buy yourself a chord bible; http://shopping.yahoo.com/search?p=guitar+chord+bible You'll have a thick book full of chords played in various positions. Spend a few minutes each practice session playing a few chord shapes up the neck. Many of the chords in the bible will never be used by most players but many will be useful in certain situations. You'll begin to see how chords shapes are common to the basics of the CAGED system and then built out from there.

Play from your ear not from your memory of a chord in a book. The more you hear how chords sound up the neck, the better your ability will be to place an up the neck chord into your playing. Just as playing a pentatonic scale beginning on the fifteenth fret will be determined by what your ear tells you is correct. Obviously, when you are playing chords, moving from, say, an E7 in the first position to an A7 at the tenth fret isn't likely to make people go, "Whooooooo! What a player!" Context is everything in music.

Your ear must tell you when you should play up the neck. That's how and why your favorite guitar hero plays the way they do. They have learned how to snatch the pebble.

[mr. beaumont]

Fretboard knowledge is true liberation. When you can see a chord as a pool of notes and not just a "shape."

[Diamond Dave]

Originally Posted by delb0y

Is the CAGED system not based on closed chord shapes

Yes and no...open chords/cowboy chords/first position chords are just barre chords/CAGED shapes, using the nut as the barre.

[jseth]

A number of interesting answers to your query already...

I'm definitely in agreement with most of these replies; however, I have to admit that I started out (and still...) being firmly in the camp of "just noodle around and see what sounds good..."!!!

I would add to that to PAY ATTENTION when you watch another player... if he does an interesting chord or two up the neck, look to see if you can figure out what he's doing/fingering with that shape/chord... I've learned a whole lot of cool "open" chords in various positions from other players, especially when I was first starting to learn this "style" of chording.

For me, it was born from a love of alternate tunings, but, back in the day (read='60's/early '70's), tuning a guitar on stage was **** near impossible, especially in a noisy bar/restaurant... so using alternate tunings on stage was really never an option for me, other than drop D tuning... heck, I didn't even use that very much. Of course, nowadays, with those sweet little SNARK's and the like, one can futz with tuning easily in a whole lot less wasted time!

So, I have a whole bunch of cool inversions for different chords, using a lot of the basic shapes (and partial shapes) of more "standard"-type chords... many have nomenclature that is EXTREMELY involved or complex, but they still work for many songs... Although I've been using them, both in performing and writing songs, for decades now, I still pick up a new one every once in a while... I always love it when that happens!

Play different chords in different positions, up (and down) the neck and see what they sound like. If you like the sound, then compare that with other chords in open position until you find one that sounds close... that will give you an immediate appraisal of where you can use it. Of course, if you have the working knowledge of chord construction, you can identify which notes you're playing and figure out "what is this one called?"!!!

Here's a couple of my favorites:

For an F#minor chord: (real name F#min7(11))

(E A D G B E) (6 5 4 3 2 1)

0-4-4-2-0-0 ... or... 2-m-2-2-0-0

This can be used as the IImin chord in the key of E (slide it up 2 frets - a whole step - and you have a reasonable G#min facsimile, as well - the IIImin chord in E major)

Using the "beginner" F chord shape (m-m-3-2-1-1), let the high string ring open, but play the shape at the 5th fret... that gives you a nice A maj chord, which you can then pull off-hammer on a couple notes for different tonal colors...

That chord shape sounds great at a whole lot of different locations on the fretboard... and will pair well with the previous example in many applications, too!

Again, "messing around' with all your basic shapes is the best way to get into this style; just keep messing with it, you'll get some nice ones... and some clunkers...

I suggest keeping and using the nice ones!

[giantkiller8]

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my query.

In my search for liberation from the first fret, i also found online chord softwares that will generate different fingerings for the same chord; some down the neck.

And if i googled for advanced chords or jazz chords, i also find a whole lot of chords down the fret board but most of them are all physically beyond me.

I think you are right, i need PATIENCE AND PRACTICE, most of my guitar heroes on youtube are real pros and they must have taken years to get where they are.

[Jason Paul]

Giantkiller8 - I know exactly what you're talking about.

I don't know what genre you're into, but you can get some useful information from Paul Baloche - open chords, with ringing open strings. He is a praise & worship leader, but you should be able to get the concept from his lessons.

Just go to YouTube and search Paul Baloche open chords concept, and you'll find some useful videos.

Also - and I don't know where I found it - he has a free ebook online somewhere that goes into decent detail about it too.

The concept isn't so much about knowing exactly what chord you're playing, but knowing where the I, IV, and V chords are, as well as the chords that function as the other chords. I know it doesn't seem like sound music theory, but it works.

Hope that helps.

Jason

[Jason Paul]

I just found the PDF I mentioned above. It's actually a companion workbook to his acoustic guitar DVD I believe. So, obviously it's more helpful if you have the DVD, but it's still useful. Here's a link:

http://leadworship.com/acousticguitar.pdf

Jason