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  #1  
Old 11-23-2009, 06:13 PM
wcap wcap is offline
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Default Using a capo to modify tone - capos aren't just for key changes!

I realize that this is not news to a lot of you, nor should it have been to me, but I have recently been really impressed by how much you can change the sound of a guitar just by putting a capo at the second or third fret.

I'm not just talking about simply changing the key, but really changing the whole tonal character of the instrument.

Recently I've been playing Doug Young's wonderful arrangements of Shenandoa and Bring a Torch a lot (DADGAD and DGDGAD tunings, respectively). I learned both of these without capos, but Doug plays them capoed up a few frets. The other day I tried playing them with the capo, just for variety, and I was truly impressed (almost amazed, really) by how much better they sounded, both on my Goodall and on my Martin 000-15. The transformation was magical. Meanwhile, certain other pieces sound much better without the capo.

This really should be no surprise to me - for years I have capoed up my 5-string banjo 3 frets for certain pieces. For some reason, my particular banjo's sound is simply stunning and magical for some of these slow and very melodic and harmonic pieces that I play when capoed up three frets. The same pieces sound not at all special without the capo. On the banjo I think the capo is putting certain critical notes at some of the resonant frequencies for that particular instrument (probably based in part on the tightness of the head).

On guitar I suspect that similar things are going on. Moving everything higher causes the notes to interact with the resonant properties of the guitar differently. I suspect that different overtones are being enhanced to different degrees, etc. But really, I don't know exactly what the whole explanation is.

The bottom line is though that if you have never tried out some of your pieces with a capo, you might be pleasantly surprised by the result. Your capo is more than just a way to change keys without changing fingerings!


(And Doug, if you are reading this, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this - e.g. what you think is going on in these cases where a capo improves the sound, and how you decided to play these pieces capoed up in the first place - trial and error I'm guessing?)

Last edited by wcap; 11-23-2009 at 06:18 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2009, 06:38 PM
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A little more of the fundamental tones dominate so a purer tone, that plus the higher music box pitches can seem rather angelic sounding. Certainly the same piece can have quite a different flavor when capoed up a ways.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:00 PM
15 Man 15 Man is offline
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I also have a Martin 000-15. There used to be some songs that I'd play (I cant even remember whicn ones now) that I'd capo up to the 4th or 5 fret to get a more Uke or Banjo style sound. Lately I've been capoing up a few frets to work on the two Tommy Emmanuel songs I've been trying to get down. That brings mine closer to sounding like Tommy's (not that I have a prayer of ever sounding that good!).
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:52 PM
open strings open strings is offline
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have you ever dropped tuning a couple steps then capo up to standard?
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:35 PM
Americanelson Americanelson is offline
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Default Interesting ...

Cool, I have not considered this. Are you saying that a barred A is 'different' than a capoed (on the 5th fret) E - or, are you really just referring to open chords, e.g., G?

How would the tone and resonance be different with a capo versus a good barre chord (again, except for the G)? Could it simply be the difference between flesh (barre) versus a harder surface (capo)?

Thanks
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:44 PM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open strings View Post
have you ever dropped tuning a couple steps then capo up to standard?
Ed Gerhard does this to great effect on some of his arrangements.

Regarding capo-ing up to modify tone, I think two good, extreme examples are "Scarborough Fair" and "Here Comes the Sun", but capoed at the 7th (IIRC)
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Last edited by mmmaak; 11-24-2009 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:13 AM
wcap wcap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Americanelson View Post
Cool, I have not considered this. Are you saying that a barred A is 'different' than a capoed (on the 5th fret) E - or, are you really just referring to open chords, e.g., G?

How would the tone and resonance be different with a capo versus a good barre chord (again, except for the G)? Could it simply be the difference between flesh (barre) versus a harder surface (capo)?

Thanks
Interesting question, and something I was thinking about when I was playing capoed up a few frets.

I think the result is in fact different with the capo. There might be tone differences between, as you suggested, the barred A vs. the capoed equivalent (same exact notes being played on the exact same strings). Not completely sure I understand why.

But I suspect that part of this capoed effect comes from having different notes coming from the open strings.

Really, I have not fully analyzed this effect.

I just know that some pieces that sound mediocre without a capo sound magical with one.

But also, some pieces that sound great without the capo are sort of wrecked when I play them capoed up a few frets.

I'm convinced there are things going on here that go beyond simply raising the pitches of the notes. Somehow, it seems these notes are interacting with the resonant properties of the guitar differently. Or maybe something else is going on I haven't figured out?
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:16 AM
wcap wcap is offline
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Quote:
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have you ever dropped tuning a couple steps then capo up to standard?
This sounds interesting. How would you describe the effect you get from doing this?

I'll have to try this sometime.
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:19 AM
wcap wcap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
A little more of the fundamental tones dominate so a purer tone, that plus the higher music box pitches can seem rather angelic sounding. Certainly the same piece can have quite a different flavor when capoed up a ways.
I think you are probably correct about the purer tone.

But I'm left wondering why this happens?
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Old 11-24-2009, 12:23 AM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Originally Posted by wcap View Post
But I'm left wondering why this happens?
There is an added "sweetness" to treble notes that come off shorter strings. This is one of the reasons for fan-fret/multi-scale instruments. Bass and treble response are improved by lengthening and shortening the associated strings, respectively.

If you ever open up a piano and look inside, you'll know what I mean
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2009, 12:49 AM
wcap wcap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmaak View Post
There is an added "sweetness" to treble notes that come off shorter strings. This is one of the reasons for fan-fret/multi-scale instruments. Bass and treble response are improved by lengthening and shortening the associated strings, respectively.

If you ever open up a piano and look inside, you'll know what I mean
OK, I guess this is making some sense.

A longer string will probably vibrate more freely, supporting more harmonics.

This is in fact something that I noticed about my overtone-rich Goodall - capoed up the overtones were diminished noticeably (but I still had a wonderful rich tone), which is a good thing for some pieces.

(Actually though, even just putting the capo on the nut, not dampening the strings in any noticeable way, also tamed the overtones a bit without reducing the string length .... maybe the weight of the capo is changing how the neck vibrates a bit?)

So, I'm guessing that the tuning down and capoing back up to standard tuning approach must have this same effect of sweetening the tone?

What is becoming abundantly clear is that I need more different guitars so I can set them up in all these different ways!
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Old 11-24-2009, 02:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wcap View Post
I think you are probably correct about the purer tone.
But I'm left wondering why this happens?
Less audible partials (overtones) are produced.
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  #13  
Old 11-24-2009, 01:29 PM
wcap wcap is offline
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As I think about this, the sound I'm getting with the capo is reminiscent of some of the parlor guitars I've tried out in shops. In both cases the shorter scale length is probably a major factor.

The cool thing about this is that with the aid of a capo you sort of have several guitars with different tonal properties in one guitar. The capo makes my Goodall sound like a parlor guitar, sort of, and this flexibility in tone is very cool and fun.

I would imagine that the tuning down and capoing back up to standard pitch approach would simulate a guitar with a short scale length even better.
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Old 11-24-2009, 01:43 PM
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Brent Hutto Brent Hutto is offline
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On my guitar I can hear the difference in "sweet" versus "overtone" timbres just by playing the note E separately on each of the top three strings. Now this is somewhat confounded by the G string being wound while the other two are plain and the E string being open while the other two are fretted (perhaps I should use F# instead) but it does give three very different timbres on the same pitch.
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  #15  
Old 11-24-2009, 02:22 PM
rdm321 rdm321 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by open strings View Post
have you ever dropped tuning a couple steps then capo up to standard?
This is common practice with many owners of 12-strings. They often tune down one step, to reduce the tension on the instrument, then capo.
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