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  #16  
Old 03-17-2018, 07:41 AM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Originally Posted by Noiseordinance View Post
Interesting, I've not heard this one recommended in the past. Do you have one?

If it makes any difference, my PA system is a pair of EV ZLX-12Ps and an ELX-115P sub using a Behringer XAir XR12 mixing system.
With that mixer, you have much better and much more flexible EQ options than you're going to get on any pedal. Why not just just get a simple DI box for the end of your chain and EQ with the board from a tablet? If you need a preamp, and then want to run the effects in its loop, the RedEye will do just fine.

Louis
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  #17  
Old 03-17-2018, 08:06 AM
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Methos1979 Methos1979 is offline
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I'm currently using the Baggs PARA. Built like a tank and does everything you need/want and can be found used in mint shape for around $100. I got mine for less than that shipped in perfect condition.

I'll also use the RedEye and the little K&K belt clip pre-amp from time to time depending on the gig. Right now for our main gigs I'm running the guitar through a BodyRez then into the PARA and out to the mixer and into a Bose S1 Pro.

I did a review on the Bose where I show the setup on a video. Here's the video if you want to check it out. Jump to 1:54 in the video where I talk about the signal path and the PARA.

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  #18  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:19 PM
Noiseordinance Noiseordinance is offline
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You guys have all given me really good feedback; lots to think about.

The other box that tends to come up is the Tonebone PZ-Pre. The intriguing thing about this pedal is that it has the option for a switchable effects loop (which I'm definitely interested in since I sometimes queue a few effects at a time), and a tuner out, which keeps the tuner out of the signal path.

Can anyone comment on the Tonebone when combined with the KK Pure Mini? My primary goal is best sounding first and foremost, with features next in line.

Last edited by Noiseordinance; 03-17-2018 at 12:43 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-17-2018, 12:57 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Originally Posted by Noiseordinance View Post
You guys have all given me really good feedback; lots to think about.

The other box that tends to come up is the Tonebone PZ-Pre. The intriguing thing about this pedal is that it has the option for a switchable effects loop (which I'm definitely interested in since I sometimes queue a few effects at a time), and a tuner out, which keeps the tuner out of the signal path.

Can anyone comment on the Tonebone when combined with the KK Pure Mini? My primary goal is best sounding first and foremost, with features next in line.
I use the ToneDexter with K&K equipped Martin CEO7. I think it's swell. 'Haven't found anything more accurate.
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  #20  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:05 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Originally Posted by Noiseordinance View Post
You guys have all given me really good feedback; lots to think about.

The other box that tends to come up is the Tonebone PZ-Pre. The intriguing thing about this pedal is that it has the option for a switchable effects loop (which I'm definitely interested in since I sometimes queue a few effects at a time), and a tuner out, which keeps the tuner out of the signal path.

Can anyone comment on the Tonebone when combined with the KK Pure Mini?
My earlier advice about using your mixer for EQ aside, the PZ-Pre brings a number of advantages to the table. As you note, it allows you to switch your whole effects chain on and off at will, allowing you to add or subtract a specific set of effects for, say, a solo or a part of a song. The most recent version of the pedal also allows you to leave the loop on all the time and add just the boost at will. It's key feature is the fact that it has two input channels that can either be selected by footswitch or mixed together (a recessed switch allows you to choses between the two modes). This is great if you play two instruments on stage. The EQ is very good, and it includes a feedback notch and a two-setting HPF.

The pedal also has switches that allow it to use either active or passive pickups in either channel, and you get separate level controls for each channel. Works just fine with the passive K&K Mini. I've used it with the one in my Taylor GS Mini as well as with my Baggs M1, the active PreSys system in my Cordoba GK Studio, the bridge piezo in my Gitane DG-300, and the soundboard and under-saddle pickups in my Godin Multiac nylon. It handles everything just as you'd expect it to. The mute is useful, and it offers 3 different outputs (XLR pre EQ/FX, XLR post EQ/FX, and 1/4" unbalanced for going to an amp--in addition to the tuner out which is an "always on" pre EQ/FX output that's also unaffected by the mute). Very, very solid build and nice layout for the controls (easy to see and to make adjustments). I have two of them, one for each of two pedalboards I use for two different ensembles.

The main drawbacks are 1) it's big and takes up a lot of space on a pedalboard, 2) the EQ is global, so if you're using two different guitars, you need to either find a setting that works for both or you have to set the EQ for one guitar and then either put another EQ in line somewhere to adjust for the other (it's useful to have onboard EQ for one of the guitars if possible), and 3) it takes a 15v power supply, which means you have to use a wall wart or buy a power supply that offers 15v (not many, do and the ones that do are not cheap). The extra voltage is apparently part of the reason the pedal can do so much and do it all so cleanly, but it does present a logistical issue.

Louis
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  #21  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:19 PM
Noiseordinance Noiseordinance is offline
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Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
My earlier advice about using your mixer for EQ aside, the PZ-Pre brings a number of advantages to the table. As you note, it allows you to switch your whole effects chain on and off at will, allowing you to add or subtract a specific set of effects for, say, a solo or a part of a song. The most recent version of the pedal also allows you to leave the loop on all the time and add just the boost at will. It's key feature is the fact that it has two input channels that can either be selected by footswitch or mixed together (a recessed switch allows you to choses between the two modes). This is great if you play two instruments on stage. The EQ is very good, and it includes a feedback notch and a two-setting HPF.

The pedal also has switches that allow it to use either active or passive pickups in either channel, and you get separate level controls for each channel. Works just fine with the passive K&K Mini. I've used it with the one in my Taylor GS Mini as well as with my Baggs M1, the active PreSys system in my Cordoba GK Studio, the bridge piezo in my Gitane DG-300, and the soundboard and under-saddle pickups in my Godin Multiac nylon. It handles everything just as you'd expect it to. The mute is useful, and it offers 3 different outputs (XLR pre EQ/FX, XLR post EQ/FX, and 1/4" unbalanced for going to an amp--in addition to the tuner out which is an "always on" pre EQ/FX output that's also unaffected by the mute). Very, very solid build and nice layout for the controls (easy to see and to make adjustments). I have two of them, one for each of two pedalboards I use for two different ensembles.

The main drawbacks are 1) it's big and takes up a lot of space on a pedalboard, 2) the EQ is global, so if you're using two different guitars, you need to either find a setting that works for both or you have to set the EQ for one guitar and then either put another EQ in line somewhere to adjust for the other (it's useful to have onboard EQ for one of the guitars if possible), and 3) it takes a 15v power supply, which means you have to use a wall wart or buy a power supply that offers 15v (not many, do and the ones that do are not cheap). The extra voltage is apparently part of the reason the pedal can do so much and do it all so cleanly, but it does present a logistical issue.

Louis
Thanks for the info! I have a decent sized pedal board with a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 Plus, which has an outlet on the back I could use, so I think I have the power part covered. I had been thinking about getting a Boss LS-2 line selector pedal specifically for effects switching, so if I found a device that had that built it, that'd certainly be a bonus.

Soundwise, have you compared it to other pre-amp / DI boxes? If so, how does it compare from a tone perspective? I also see some people on Amazon claiming it has some hiss (only a few people report that). Have you noticed that at all?
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  #22  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:26 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
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When I asked the owner of FireEye why there was so little EQ on the Red Eye, he laughed and said it was because the frequency response was linear across the whole spectrum, which he said is not the case with most pres. This works really well with the Dazzo pickups I run in all my guitars because the pickups are matched to the guitar they are in. Any room problems can be handled at the amp or the board.

The RedEye to me sounds way better than a PARA DI, but this becomes less and less important the more effects that are in the chain.I'm also not a fan of any 9V stompbox EQ.

I'm getting a prototype DI unit from Sunnaudio that has only a blend control for it's two inputs, primarily to use at an open mic. The sound of the Sunnaudio pre I tried was slightly better than the RedEye.
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2018, 01:55 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Originally Posted by Noiseordinance View Post
Thanks for the info! I have a decent sized pedal board with a Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 Plus, which has an outlet on the back I could use, so I think I have the power part covered. I had been thinking about getting a Boss LS-2 line selector pedal specifically for effects switching, so if I found a device that had that built it, that'd certainly be a bonus.

Soundwise, have you compared it to other pre-amp / DI boxes? If so, how does it compare from a tone perspective? I also see some people on Amazon claiming it has some hiss (only a few people report that). Have you noticed that at all?
I've used a bunch of others over the years and it sounds as good as any of them. In terms of tone, with the controls flat it puts out exactly what you put into it without any noticeable coloration or extra hiss. The EQ is well-designed and "musical" as they say, so you can adjust things appropriately from there. When you switch the inputs to the PZ setting, you get a significant gain boost (important for my passive M1), and the impedance goes to 10meg Ohms, so passive pickups like the K&K and the BigTone in my DG-300 are quite happy. I used it on the PZ setting with a friend's Jazzmaster the other night, and that worked beautifully, too. I've used it extensively with lots of different PA systems in various venues over the years and regularly into two different acoustic amps (a Loudbox Artist and a Genz Benz ProLT). My first one was the original version, and I got the second one to use with a new pedalboard in order to take advantage of the newly added "always on" function of the loop (useful for me in one set up but irrelevant in the other). The first one gave me years of trouble-free service, so it was an easy choice for me given my two two-guitar set-ups. The only unit that competes with it for the sort of thing I need is the Grace Felix, but that's priced out of my reach.

Just so you understand: the effects loop switch is only on/off. It won't allow you to select between two different signal chains like a line selector will. And the channel switching only switches between two inputs. You can't switch between different outputs, although you can send your signal from up to 4 different points in your signal chain at the same time (for example, to your tuner pre everything and unmuted, to one channel on your board pre everything but the mute, to another channel on your board post everything, and to a stage amp post everything).

Louis
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  #24  
Old 03-17-2018, 02:07 PM
Noiseordinance Noiseordinance is offline
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Originally Posted by lschwart View Post
I've used a bunch of others over the years and it sounds as good as any of them. In terms of tone, with the controls flat it puts out exactly what you put into it without any noticeable coloration or extra hiss. The EQ is well-designed and "musical" as they say, so you can adjust things appropriately from there. When you switch the inputs to the PZ setting, you get a significant gain boost (important for my passive M1), and the impedance goes to 10meg Ohms, so passive pickups like the K&K and the BigTone in my DG-300 are quite happy. I used it on the PZ setting with a friend's Jazzmaster the other night, and that worked beautifully, too. I've used it extensively with lots of different PA systems in various venues over the years and regularly into two different acoustic amps (a Loudbox Artist and a Genz Benz ProLT). My first one was the original version, and I got the second one to use with a new pedalboard in order to take advantage of the newly added "always on" function of the loop (useful for me in one set up but irrelevant in the other). The first one gave me years of trouble-free service, so it was an easy choice for me given my two two-guitar set-ups. The only unit that competes with it for the sort of thing I need is the Grace Felix, but that's priced out of my reach.

Just so you understand: the effects loop switch is only on/off. It won't allow you to select between two different signal chains like a line selector will. And the channel switching only switches between two inputs. You can't switch between different outputs, although you can send your signal from up to 4 different points in your signal chain at the same time (for example, to your tuner pre everything and unmuted, to one channel on your board pre everything but the mute, to another channel on your board post everything, and to a stage amp post everything).

Louis
Awesome, thanks again for the info. Have you used a Red Eye before? I’m curious if you have compared this to the Tonebone. I find it amazing that such a simple DI Box (Red Eye) gets mentioned in every single thread.

As for the effects loop, I just want simple, single channel on / off switching that the Tonebone seems to provide.
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  #25  
Old 03-17-2018, 02:34 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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Originally Posted by Noiseordinance View Post
Awesome, thanks again for the info. Have you used a Red Eye before? I’m curious if you have compared this to the Tonebone. I find it amazing that such a simple DI Box (Red Eye) gets mentioned in every single thread.

As for the effects loop, I just want simple, single channel on / off switching that the Tonebone seems to provide.
The RedEye is one I have not tried. Given what people say about it, I'm sure it does the job as long as you don't need more EQ than it offers. I was tempted to get the two channel version (the Twin) when I was putting together the new pedalboard, but decided to go with the known quantity and the extra functions offered by the PZ-Pre. I particularly needed the 1/4" output.

Louis
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  #26  
Old 03-18-2018, 12:08 PM
mandowilli mandowilli is offline
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I used the Tonebone PZ Pre for years and it is a great durable unit with lots of control but ultimately the lack of independent eq for each channel became too much of an issue.

Also a big drawback for me was the fact that although the tuner output is always on when the mute switch is engaged it is always being fed by both inputs. In my case I could not tune my mandolin mid song because all of the stage sound was also being picked up by my dobro cone. When you hit mute it is muting the output. Both inputs are still connected to the tuner.

I now use the Grace Felix and also find it to be the best unit out there.
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  #27  
Old 03-18-2018, 12:18 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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I used the Tonebone PZ Pre for years and it is a great durable unit with lots of control but ultimately the lack of independent eq for each channel became too much of an issue.

Also a big drawback for me was the fact that although the tuner output is always on when the mute switch is engaged it is always being fed by both inputs. In my case I could not tune my mandolin mid song because all of the stage sound was also being picked up by my dobro cone. When you hit mute it is muting the output. Both inputs are still connected to the tuner.

I now use the Grace Felix and also find it to be the best unit out there.
The Felix is no doubt a step up in a number of ways, but I've never noticed the problem you describe with the tuner out on the PZ-Pre. According to the specs, the tuner out is after the channel switch, and that's how I recall it functioning when I first tried the unit out (I use clip-on tuners, so my experience with the tuner out has been very limited). I'll check again later today. That would be a weird design choice if it's actually supposed to be that way!

Louis
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  #28  
Old 03-18-2018, 12:28 PM
mandowilli mandowilli is offline
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I emailed Radial support and they confirmed that this was true and cannot be modified.

I will add that I never noticed it when playing guitar and mandolin. It may have more to do with the nature of the dobro cone which acts like a satellite dish onstage.
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  #29  
Old 03-18-2018, 12:34 PM
lschwart lschwart is offline
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I emailed Radial support and they confirmed that this was true and cannot be modified.

I will add that I never noticed it when playing guitar and mandolin. It may have more to do with the nature of the dobro cone which acts like a satellite dish onstage.
Weird design choice! I'm glad I never had to use the tuner out with two guitars, although I suppose you're right that the problem would only arise with an instrument likely to send sound loud enough while sitting idle on stage. As I said, I didn't notice it when I put my first unit through it's paces when I first got it.

Louis
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