Practicing Should Be Like Working Out

[Oylerz]

Hmmm... not sure about practicing until you experience muscle failure but I did read an interesting thought on WHY a person should practice...

"The point of practice is not to practice until I get something right, it's to practice until I can't get it wrong."

I thought that was an interesting juxtaposition and I thing there's a lot of truth in there. If I stop practicing when I get something right, I'll probably make mistakes the next time I play it. If I keep going eventually it will be so ingrained I will be unable to get it wrong.

This is not to say that every practice session must result in the above but overall practice should be looked at as a way to perfect what we learn, not to just learn (although the learning part cannot be overlooked).

That's just my thoughts on it.

[bobc]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Bob…
It sounds to me like you are speaking of strength training, and at this point in my guitar playing experience it's not about strength but about learning new skills and relaxation, flexibility & accuracy not strength that counts. If a guitar is setup well, then it's more about other aspects than pure physical strength (except for doing full step bends on medium heavy strings).

As a long-time player (over 46 years now), I never get tired. I've played for 6-8 hours in jamming/concert situations (moving between concert, jams and workshops and lessons for a full day at a time) and my hands/arms/fingers never get tired.

These days my learning is either a new arrangement, new chord progressions or building my chord vocabulary in the context of song arrangements and not raw skills. Mastered barres 40-some years back, which were the strength maneuvers I needed...

As a teacher, I'm constantly pushing students towards accuracy, theory, and learning to play relaxed so they can turn 'notes' into 'music'...I would never suggest they play things to the point of exhaustion.

In fact I encourage them to play till the brain is getting tired/careless and then switch and play something else so they don't imprint the bad techniques which come from trying to play through frustration/tiredness of the brain.

Perhaps I'm not getting what you are trying to say. I seldom assign to a student a single task, but have them doing many things at once so they retain some freshness and balance in their playing. When I lifted weights, I'd do upper body one day and lower the next and work to the point of exhaustion and give the other a rest to rebuild.

I am not seeing the connection between that and practicing music/guitar...

It's not strength training. It's endurance training because it involves many reps with little resistance.

Also, I'm not suggesting to stop all the other things involved in playing guitar, but merely adding another useful tool for developing the muscular part of guitar playing. I think it could be quite useful and even made to be fun with a little imagination...

Edit:
Also, you seem to already be in great shape if you play for that many hours, but there are folks that cannot play for near that long and could very well benefit from this type of conditioning.

[bobc]

Originally Posted by mtnByker

I am skeptical of the idea that military discipline = better music making, or better art in general. Better endurance maybe, but I don't generally think of guitar as a cardio workout.

Believe it or not, the military pioneered many of the fitness techniques used today, and there are two types of muscular training... muscular strength training, and muscular endurance training.

Strength training is adjusting the weight so you can only do 8 to 12 reps per set. This makes the muscles bigger and bulkier (bulking up).

Endurance training is using a lot less weight and many reps. This keeps the muscles smaller but allows them to be used for much longer periods of time without failure.

The military trains strictly for endurance because the green machine must keep going... and going... and going...

I am only suggesting this as a tool to help with the muscular part of guitar playing. Of course we should still work on all the other things as well.

[fttfbass]

Originally Posted by bobc

Believe it or not, the military pioneered many of the fitness techniques used today, and there are two types of muscular training... muscular strength training, and muscular endurance training.

Strength training is adjusting the weight so you can only do 8 to 12 reps per set. This makes the muscles bigger and bulkier (bulking up).

Endurance training is using a lot less weight and many reps. This keeps the muscles smaller but allows them to be used for much longer periods of time without failure.

The military trains strictly for endurance because the green machine must keep going... and going... and going...

I am only suggesting this as a tool to help with the muscular part of guitar playing. Of course we should still work on all the other things as well.

Actually, their are more than two types of muscular training.

Hypertrophy (bulking up) is adjusting the weight so you can only do 8 to 12 reps per set with shorter rest periods.

Strength (getting stronger without the added bulk) is adjusting the weight so you can only do 4 to 6 reps per set with longer rest periods.

Power (explosive) is adjusting the weight so that you can only do 1 to 3 reps per set with longer rest periods.

Muscular endurance is basically how you described it.

Of course their is always interval training, isometric training, plyometric training, VO2max training, greasing the groove, etc.



Now to transition my post from a topic that would be on a strength and conditioning forum to an acoustic guitar forum:

Going to muscular failure while playing guitar has carpal tunnel syndrome written all over it. Possibly even tendinitis of the elbow joint. I wouldn't recommend it.

[Dogsnax]

Back before electricity, I was a competitive marathon runner (participated in the 1984 U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials). A very wise training partner recommended something I've carried forward to the current day, whether exercising or practicing guitar:

Always finish your workout/practice feeling like you could of done a little more.

[mmmaak]

Originally Posted by cazza

Playing the guitar is less about muscle than about heart.

....till you realize that the heart is just a big muscle

[bobc]

Originally Posted by fttfbass

Actually, their are more than two types of muscular training.

Hypertrophy (bulking up) is adjusting the weight so you can only do 8 to 12 reps per set with shorter rest periods.

Strength (getting stronger without the added bulk) is adjusting the weight so you can only do 4 to 6 reps per set with longer rest periods.

Power (explosive) is adjusting the weight so that you can only do 1 to 3 reps per set with longer rest periods.

Muscular endurance is basically how you described it.

Of course their is always interval training, isometric training, plyometric training, VO2max training, greasing the groove, etc.



Now to transition my post from a topic that would be on a strength and conditioning forum to an acoustic guitar forum:

Going to muscular failure while playing guitar has carpal tunnel syndrome written all over it. Possibly even tendinitis of the elbow joint. I wouldn't recommend it.

All your really doing here is breaking strength training down into 3 different categories and complicating things. Strength is more weight with less reps and endurance is less weight with more reps.

I am suggesting endurance training because that is what would be required for guitar playing. As far as injuries go, If you do a proper warm up and cool down, and work on flexibility, you should be able to do it without any injuries in the process. In fact conditioning the muscles with endurance training actually helps the joints and tendons if done properly and working on flexibility.

[fttfbass]

Originally Posted by bobc

All your really doing here is breaking strength training down into 3 different categories and complicating things. Strength is more weight with less reps and endurance is less weight with more reps.

I am suggesting endurance training because that is what would be required for guitar playing. As far as injuries go, If you do a proper warm up and cool down, and work on flexibility, you should be able to do it without any injuries in the process. In fact conditioning the muscles with endurance training actually helps the joints and tendons if done properly and working on flexibility.

Actually, I broke strength training down into 4 different categories (the same 4 categories that are in every strength & conditioning and personal training book) and then complicated things.

You have a valid point about endurance training, not only conditioning the muscles, but also conditioning the joints and tendons. I see it being a good idea to practice for extended periods of time to build up your stamina on the fretboard, but I don't see going to muscular failure being productive.

[fttfbass]

Originally Posted by Dogsnax

Back before electricity, I was a competitive marathon runner (participated in the 1984 U.S. Olympic Marathon Trials). A very wise training partner recommended something I've carried forward to the current day, whether exercising or practicing guitar:

Always finish your workout/practice feeling like you could of done a little more.

I couldn't agree more!

[bobc]

Originally Posted by fttfbass

You have a valid point about endurance training, not only conditioning the muscles, but also conditioning the joints and tendons. I see it being a good idea to practice for extended periods of time to build up your stamina on the fretboard, but I don't see going to muscular failure being productive.

Muscle failure in a fitness sense is not as bad as it sounds. The idea is to exhaust both fibers in the muscles to get a training effect. I don't know why they call it muscle failure because that sounds like an injury...