When did the modern OM shape originate?

[rogthefrog]

I've seen a few OMs by various builders with a very distinctive modern shape: a wooden coat hanger slope to the shoulders and a deep waist giving the guitar a pronounced hourglass shape. For example:

Kraut:


White:


Bashkin:


Contrast to the traditional shape with flat shoulders:



Does anyone know:

* which builder(s) originated this modern shape?
* when?
* who is currently building guitars in this shape?

Thanks, o wise ones.

[iim7V7IM7]

I can't answer the who was first question definitively, but I believe Michael Bashkin (CO) is who I associate with that body shape when I see it. I know that Michael studied with Harry Fleischman (CA) who also has also made guitars with shape (so perhaps Harry?). Two other builders who build 000 sized bodies with that stylized shape are luthiers Simon Fay (FL) and Michihiro Matsuda (CA).

[dberkowitz]

I'd argue that the modern OM is derived from the J185. Many of the modern "OM"/Concert/SJ guitars are about the same size, with the proportions stretched in various ways, but essentially a J185 shrunk down to a 15" guitar. Jim Olson's SJ, which he's been building long before Michael even started, is a 15" guitar. Ervin's been building his OM for a long time and his students derived their shapes from his. I'm not sure how one nails this down.

[Napman41]

Martin rolled out the 000-28 Orchestra Model in late 1929. A player named Perry Betchel basically spec'd the guitar and Martin built one for him and the rest is history. (Martin History &#128527

[dekutree64]

I'm guessing it started around the time computer vector drawing programs became available. To my eye, what separates the modern OM from the vintage styles like Martin, J185, and Olson SJ is that the modern ones all look like bezier curves.

[iim7V7IM7]

I think that there may be some confusion about what the OP was asking.

There are MANY "modern" takes on a 000/OM guitar as cited by some posters. I think that he is specifically asking about the body shapes that he posted to illustrate his question. That specific body shape is used by Baskin, Fay, Fleishman, Kraut, Matsuda, White and perhaps others. That is what they are calling "modern" for purposes of this discussion. I think he want to know who else made guitars with that specific shape and who was the first luthier to use it?

[Andy Howell]

Originally Posted by dekutree64

I'm guessing it started around the time computer vector drawing programs became available. To my eye, what separates the modern OM from the vintage styles like Martin, J185, and Olson SJ is that the modern ones all look like bezier curves.

That seems a very good point to me!

Adrian Lucas — currently building me a guitar — has achieved a stunning 'sweep' cutaway style which I'm sure he designed on a computer — I think he was once an architect. I kind of like the mix of hi tech design and traditional methods and wizardry!

[Larry Pattis]

FYI, the top photo shown is a 00, not an OM.

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by dberkowitz

I'd argue that the modern OM is derived from the J185. Many of the modern "OM"/Concert/SJ guitars are about the same size, with the proportions stretched in various ways, but essentially a J185 shrunk down to a 15" guitar. Jim Olson's SJ, which he's been building long before Michael even started, is a 15" guitar. Ervin's been building his OM for a long time and his students derived their shapes from his.

This sounds about right to me. I'd also suggest that the "modern" OM shape is, generally speaking, pretty much designed for fingerstyle, which the slightly larger and deeper body is better suited to than the traditional OM shape in terms of balance and depth of sound.

There are too many names of those who are using this design to mention, but a few are:

Ervin Somogyi
Jeff Traugott
Michael Bashkin
Mario Beauregard
Dan Bresnan
Jason Kostal
Ray Kraut
Michi Matsuda
Kent Hamblin
James Olson
Kevin Ryan

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

FYI, the top photo shown is a 00, not an OM.

You beat me to it!

[JoeCharter]

I've never discussed this extensively with Jim but I understand the Olson SJ shape was based on Guild jumbos -- which were influenced by Gibson jumbos, which in turn derive from the early archtops.

As for the "modified" high waist slope shoulder design, I haven't been around for long enough to provide an educated answer but I'd guess Ervin has been around much longer than some of the names being mentioned.

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

I think that there may be some confusion about what the OP was asking.

There are MANY "modern" takes on a 000/OM guitar as cited by some posters. I think that he is specifically asking about the body shapes that he posted to illustrate his question. That specific body shape is used by Baskin, Fay, Fleishman, Kraut, Matsuda, White and perhaps others. That is what they are calling "modern" for purposes of this discussion. I think he want to know who else made guitars with that specific shape and who was the first luthier to use it?

That's right. Not asking about the om shape in general, but specifically about the modern shape with slopey shoulders etc as described in op.

Thanks for the answers. Still curious

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by Larry Pattis

FYI, the top photo shown is a 00, not an OM.

Thanks. Clearly I still don't have the names down. But I'm still curious about the shape regardless of size

[rogthefrog]

Originally Posted by JoeCharter

I've never discussed this extensively with Jim but I understand the Olson SJ shape was based on Guild jumbos -- which were influenced by Gibson jumbos, which in turn derive from the early archtops.

As for the "modified" high waist slope shoulder design, I haven't been around for long enough to provide an educated answer but I'd guess Ervin has been around much longer than some of the names being mentioned.

Excellent, as i am due to visit his shop in the next few days. I'll ask him.

[BBWW]

Originally Posted by rogthefrog

Excellent, as i am due to visit his shop in the next few days. I'll ask him.

Better move fast I hear a golf course in Arizona is waiting for him…..