When they say tuners 3 left 3 right…

[Quickstep192]

Which side is left and which side is right?

I’m assuming left is the left side as you’re looking at the front of the headstock, but just making sure.

[difalkner]

That's the way I interpret that but I don't think it matters as long as you end up with 3 on each side and they're mounted the correct way.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by difalkner

That's the way I interpret that but I don't think it matters as long as you end up with 3 on each side and they're mounted the correct way.

But the "correct" way today was not the "correct" way of yesteryear! You see a number of old slot head models where the original factory tuners had the gears on the other side of the barrel.

[Fathand]

When you look at telecaster tuners, they are sold as 6R. They are on the right side when viewed from the back.

Hope that makes sense.

[RogerHaggstrom]

On a slotted head, the old way is the right way. When strings are tuned to tension, the post and cog is tightened to the worm. On a flat head, the opposite is true.

The shift from the right to wrong slotted head tuners came in the early 1920s, about the same time flat heads became popular. I guess the tuner makers didn't want to have two different layouts and went with the new and modern flat head configuration...

Old sloppy tuners can turn out to be quite nice and tight on old slotted head guitars.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by RogerHaggstrom

On a slotted head, the old way is the right way. When strings are tuned to tension, the post and cog is tightened to the worm. On a flat head, the opposite is true.

The shift from the right to wrong slotted head tuners came in the early 1920s, about the same time flat heads became popular. I guess the tuner makers didn't want to have two different layouts and went with the new and modern flat head configuration...

Old sloppy tuners can turn out to be quite nice and tight on old slotted head guitars.

Have you got that the right way around? New slot head tuners have the string post being levered into the gears - which stops post hole wear. In the older system, like in the photo of the National Duolian above, it looks like the string post is being pulled down towards the gears but it is actually being levered away from the gears and the holes in the headstock become oval over time. At least, I think that's why the switch was made - to lessen the wearing of the holes in the headstock. I think that the modern system is better from an engineering perspective?

[redir]

The worm gear is almost always pointed down toward the nut. That's the case even on flat paddle heads despite what was mentioned that the force of the post should be applied towards the gear. With properly fitted grommets I guess it doesn't matter much.

[Mandobart]

Regarding discussion on worm gear placement with relation to roller gear - In the mandolin world tuning machines come 4-on-a-plate. They have always come in both the worm-under and worm-over configurations.

Except in one manufacturer's case, the gears are all cut such that a counter clockwise rotation of the buttons (when looking at the button, which is how you view the bass side when tuning but not normally how you view the treble side) raises the pitch of the string.

The builder chooses which tuning machine style and brand to use. I've got both configurations on my various instruments and don't have any preference nor notice any difference in performance. I've changed out the tuning machines on several, including a couple instruments from the 1930's. I didn't notice any wear in the headstocks, even though the original machines didn't use any bushings.

[John Arnold]

So-called 'reverse' tuners with the worm under the crown gear were the norm before the mid-1920's. In order for the conventional action (CCW tightens the string), the worm should have a right-hand spiral. Modern tuners with the worm over the gear have a left-hand worm.
No matter whether it is a slot head or solid head, string tension forces the post downward. On reverse tuners, this force can separate the gear from the worm, increasing play. With non reverse tuners, the gear and worm tend to be forced together, which can cause binding. In either case, the shaft should fit snugly in the peghead to prevent those issues. Also, the holes in the peghead should be exactly perpendicular to the surface where the tuner mounts.

[Quickstep192]

Thanks for the replies.

With my thoughts informed by your kind replies, I’d like to re-frame my question. By the way, the tuners will go on a banjo where all the tuners will be on the peghead, so there will be three on one side and two on the other.

With that in mind, I’m thinking about banjos with friction pegs in which the tuners for the bass side strings would be turned clockwise to tighten the string and the treble side would be the opposite.

In that model, would you put lefts on both sides?

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Thanks for the replies.

With my thoughts informed by your kind replies, I’d like to re-frame my question. By the way, the tuners will go on a banjo where all the tuners will be on the peghead, so there will be three on one side and two on the other.

With that in mind, I’m thinking about banjos with friction pegs in which the tuners for the bass side strings would be turned clockwise to tighten the string and the treble side would be the opposite.

In that model, would you put lefts on both sides?

No - I'd fit 3 lefts and two rights. On a standard 3 x 3 flathead guitar the bass side and treble side also wind in opposite directions. You are just fitting one tuner less.

[Fathand]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Thanks for the replies.

With my thoughts informed by your kind replies, I’d like to re-frame my question. By the way, the tuners will go on a banjo where all the tuners will be on the peghead, so there will be three on one side and two on the other.

With that in mind, I’m thinking about banjos with friction pegs in which the tuners for the bass side strings would be turned clockwise to tighten the string and the treble side would be the opposite.

In that model, would you put lefts on both sides?

As a banjo player, I agree, bass and treble tuners should turn opposite directions. Slot head guitars confuse me for that reason.

I much prefer planetary style tuners on a banjo, easier to install and easier to change strings. Also the common 4:1 ratio is faster to bring up to pitch, although Rickard now offers 10:1 versions.

[Robin, Wales]

Another thought:

Pegheads, Perfection Pegs and Wittner Fine Tune all make banjo/guitar replacement tuners that look and fit like old wooden tuning pegs. But they have planetary gear systems hidden inside and give either 4:1 or 7:1 ratios. I have a set on my 1890s open back banjo that I dropped in to replace the wooden pegs. They were the same size, shape and taper as a set of wooden pegs.

[Mandobart]

+1 on the Perfection Pegs! Tuning my 10 string Hardanger viola would take longer and be less simple without them.

[redi]

At present working on a restoration on a 19th century slot head guitar, hoping the existing reverse worm-under tuners will be stable...

But if anyone has a source for replacement reverse worm-under slot head tuners, please advise.

Thanks.