Tips for Mackie FreePlay (Mackie Reach) Owners:

[martingitdave]

DannyG1 suggested we start a new thread to share our findings with this unit. Here's our collective final summary.

This is a really good unit when purchased on sale. At full retail price, some of these issues are hard to overlook. AGF users who have this unit recommend getting the three accessories: the battery pack, the bag, and the tilt/speaker stand. These three accessories are important in getting the most out of this system. We feel that Mackie should have included them with the unit.

The FreePlay will get the job done if you recognize that they made some poor value engineering decisions with respect to the preamps. The first stage in amplifying any instrument (gain staging) is the preamp stage in the mixer. Then, the signal is further amplified by the power amplifier. In the case of Mackie equipment, the microphones are properly gain staged, but the instrument inputs are 0 dB gain. So, the preamplifier does not actually preamplify instruments. The power amplifiers appear to be just fine. Mackie does this to "protect" their power amplifiers and prevent them from being overloaded, presumably. But, the result for many of us is insufficient gain.

It is possible/likely that your guitar won't be loud enough when you plug it in for the first time. But, you'll need to follow the steps to understand why.


Basically, you get three input conditions on the Mackie FreePlay. All of this applies to the Mackie Reach except the gain is +30 dB.

1. Balanced XLR: +20 dB gain, and 10K ohm impedance.
2. Balanced TRS: +0 dB, and 100K ohm impedance.
3. Unbalanced TS: +0 dB and 400K ohm impedance.

Step 1. Determine your pickup type. Do you have an active pickup with good preamp and buffered signal? Or, do you have a passive pickup with high impedance requirement? It's important for the impedance matching.

Step 2. Determine your pickup's output gain. Plug your pickup in with a standard 1/4" instrument cable. What does the level read when you play hard and soft? If you're not mid way in the green, you need to boost gain. If you have enough gain, stop - you're done. The TS connection should have enough impedance for both active and most passive pickups that have enough gain to be usable.

Step 3. How to get more gain for an active pickup? If you need gain and you have an active pickup, you can try the XLR - TS cable. It will connect you to the XLR with low impedance and engage the preamp for 20 dB gain. If you have an older Taylor system with the balanced output buy a standard TRS-XLR balanced cable. If it sounds good, your impedance is probably close enough and you're done. If it doesn't sound good, follow step 4.

Step 4. How to get more gain for a passive pickup, or an active pickup with impedance issues? You're going to need a DI box or preamp unit. If you use a passive DI box into the XLR to activate the Mackie preamp, and match impedance, make sure it doesn't have a high attenuation. You'll defeat the purpose. If you use an active DI box into the XLR and your gain isn't clipping, you're done. If your fixed XLR DI output is clipping, you can go out of the 1/4" output of your DI into the 1/4" Mackie and you're done.

I think I'm officially done with my exploration on the Mackie Freeplay. Now, I'll go use it in peace. :-)

Thanks to Cuki, Danny and Aaron for their testing/advice.

Here's how we tested:

1. Fishman Platinum Active preamp/DI (Fixed output) XLR - Signal a little too hot because XLR output gain is fixed.

2. Behringer Passive DI - OK for active pickups. Gain too low for some passive pickups. OK for K&K. You'll loose a bit of high end - might have to boost with EQ.

3. Straight in 1/4" with active LR Baggs Anthem pickup - gain is ok for quiet rooms, but about 6 to 10 dB too low for louder street playing.

4. Straight in 1/4" with passive mag pickup - gain too low to use.

5. Straight in 1/4" with Fishman Aura F1 Plus Retro guitars in Performance Mode - Works pretty well for medium/loudness applicaitons. Needed another 3-6 dB to be perfect.

6. XLR-TS with Fishman Aura F1 Plus Retro guitars in Performance Mode - Works great. Need to turn the volume down on the guitar.

7. XLR-TS with K&K PM 12 String passive - A little too hot. Clips if you play too hard. Impedance mismatch.

8. Straight in 1/4" with K&K PM 12 String passive - Just about perfect. No clipping and no obvious impedance mis match. "Wide Z" actually works. Coincidence? Probably not. In fact, I suspect Mackie set this preamp up to work well with the very popular K&K. The K&K is usually a hot pickup and works best with input impedance around 500k ohms. So, the audible test results and the math prove it works. So, it works.

9. Everything works and sounds great though the TC Helicon Play Acoustic pedal. But, you need mains power or a special 12v battery pack. If you have this pedal, or the similar Boss VE-8, or Zoom A3, Zoom AC-2, LR Baggs Venue, Fishman Platinum Pre, etc., it would be a good idea to use it with this system. It really benefits from a strong instrument preamp in front of the Mackie equipment.

Bonus BatteryTip:

Amazon sells a number of rechargeable external Laptop battery packs. If you need more battery play time than the internal battery can give you, you can use both the internal battery and a 20V external battery pack. The reason this is the best solution is that your Mackie will run continuously and keep your internal battery topped off. Also, no modifications are required.


MAKE SURE TO CHECK POLARITY OF YOUR EXTERNAL BATTERY BEFORE USING IT. DON'T BE DUMB AND SKIP THIS STEP. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...31540ba447.jpg

Advice/Request for Mackie:

Please do a better job with the preamp design to enable working musicians to use and recommend your products again. This product, and the compact DLM speakers, sound terrific. But a few $ spent on your mixer improvements would make them infinitely more usable and allow us to recommend them without reservation. The DLM needs more individual channel gain for channel two and/or a master volume control. Please issue a firmware update for the DLM to increase the digital preamp gain, if possible. The DLM also needs a firmware update to change the default PA voicing. It's too bass heavy and unpleasant. The QSC K EQ is more natural.

Also, please send us a complimentary unit for all this work we did for you. :-)

[dannyg1]

Yes Mackie, please do send us free stuff. We've probably helped you sell quite a few of your products as it is and with this info, gobs more. PM me for my address (DLM8, SR350 and soon to be Freeplay owning, unpaid critic and tester)<s>.

Dave, when I get the new 50000mah battery, which it looks like I'll be using in the new Korg amp as well, I'll confirm its function. For now, if you're looking to power the Freeplay externally, I can suggest using this K2 Energy K2B24V10EB LiFePO4 24V 9.6Ah.

https://jet.com/product/K2-Energy-K2...379af4baa2fcdf

(You can find this for $100-120 used on eBay. You'll also need a charger. Here's one that will fast charge the battery in under 2 hrs. It runs at 28v and K2 specifies 27.2-29.2v on their cut sheet for charging:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Good-Quality...8AAOSwXYtY2bR5

That last charger requires that you stick around for the time it takes to charge and then take the battery off charging. Here's one that you can plug in and leave to its own devices, until you're ready to run the battery again:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Stanley-...YAAOSwfRdZKZ9U

As it comes from the factory, this K2 battery runs at a nominal 24v while the Freeplay takes a 20v input voltage from its adaptor. I don't suspect that this will be a problem (most power brick connectors are designed to handle varying voltage loads and 20% is within the range I've overvolted items and had it work just fine). It is though, at the moment at least, an untested hypothesis/learned guess, so you'll probably want to put one of these, set for 20v (easy to do with a $10 voltmeter), in line with the battery. It should fit in a standard inline plastic fuse box

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5A-DC-Buck-S...sAAOSwceNZPmZx

Oh and Aaron, I found another of these 50000mah power banks, rebranded once more, for far less money but they describe it as 'used'.

$78 so around $40 less money.

[dannyg1]

I guess we haven't made as much AGF market penetration as I thought. On the upside, the Korg works on 12v. Bodes well for the Freeplay on 24v.

[dannyg1]

I asked on Amazon yesterday if the 50000mah packs can handle momentary peaks above 3a and today I got this answer from an owner user:


Amazon.com

A fellow customer answered your question, "Will this work with a 20v 3ah powered speaker that has a variable load and peaks at a momentary [email protected]?" about GBTIGER 50000mAh 6 Port(5/12/20v) Portable....
Floyd B. answered:
"It will drive a sustained load of a little over 4 amps at 20v. If your momentary peaks current peaks are well above that, the power bank's protection circuitry may shut down. If you can't fully characterize the current peaks and duration, there's no way to know for sure, short of trying (buying) one.

[dannyg1]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...BNGCCMF1&psc=1

Please disregard the link in my first post in this thread, for the $78 50000mah power bank. The above is the correct link and I'm having trouble editing the post in my phone's browser.

We can now be almost positive that this battery will drive the Freeplay in place of AC and at full power.

[douglasfan1]

I heard many in this forum said that the output sound level of Mackie Reach is too low. Users keep turning to Max for performing in coffee shop... I wonder how loud I can expect from it?

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by douglasfan1

I heard many in this forum said that the output sound level of Mackie Reach is too low. Users keep turning to Max for performing in coffee shop... I wonder how loud I can expect from it?

See above. I added some information to the original post.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by douglasfan1

I heard many in this forum said that the output sound level of Mackie Reach is too low. Users keep turning to Max for performing in coffee shop... I wonder how loud I can expect from it?

I just got my refurbished one direct from Mackie yesterday and it is a puzzle why they would design the inputs the way they did. There is no doubt that in spite of their advertising, they simply aren't designed to plug a guitar directly into, and anyone trying to do this is going to think that it is just a lousy product.

I'm not having any of using the TRS line level inputs either. When I plug my Boss VE-8 directly in either. The level is still far to low.

When I plug my VE-8 in with the XLR jack, it engages the 30db preamp and that is far too hot.

I have a variable pad. When I plug the XLR output of the VE-8 into the pad and go from that int the Reach, the 20db pad is what brings it back down to the proper level.

Once you get the input level right, everything else is great. The sound is full and warm, and I seem to have lots of headroom (although I've only tried it in my living room). The side monitors are brilliant.

[dannyg1]

That -20db spec is my experience too. The DLM8 runs globally at some odd variant of consumer level.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by lkingston

There is no doubt that in spite of their advertising, they simply aren't designed to plug a guitar directly into, and anyone trying to do this is going to think that it is just a lousy product.

Once you get the input level right, everything else is great. The sound is full and warm, and I seem to have lots of headroom (although I've only tried it in my living room). The side monitors are brilliant.

You're 100% correct. Consistent with my experience.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

That -20db spec is my experience too. The DLM8 runs globally at some odd variant of consumer level.

Yes, a 20db pad seems to be the magic number, at least for the Reach with it's 30db gain XLR preamps. With the FreePlay it might likely be better with a 10db pad since it has 20db rather than 30db preamps, but I wouldn't recommend it without testing it first.

It really is no big deal for me. I always use either a Boss AD-2 or a Boss VE-8 to get a little resonance modeling. Using the balanced outs and adding the pad is pretty easy.

It is a hack though. It never should have made it through R & D and out to market like this. The fact that this considerable flaw is on so many of their products is stunning.

Oh well, for the bargained down refurb price I don't mind. The sound with the levels corrected is great. The spread out tweeters will let me use just one rather than two speakers. The side monitors are brilliant. I'll buy a small 20db pad and leave it permanently attached to the wires in my setup.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Yes, a 20db pad seems to be the magic number, at least for the Reach with it's 30db gain XLR preamps. With the FreePlay it might likely be better with a 10db pad since it has 20db rather than 30db preamps, but I wouldn't recommend it without testing it first.

It really is no big deal for me. I always use either a Boss AD-2 or a Boss VE-8 to get a little resonance modeling. Using the balanced outs and adding the pad is pretty easy.

It is a hack though. It never should have made it through R & D and out to market like this. The fact that this considerable flaw is on so many of their products is stunning.

Oh well, for the bargained down refurb price I don't mind. The sound with the levels corrected is great. The spread out tweeters will let me use just one rather than two speakers. The side monitors are brilliant. I'll buy a small 20db pad and leave it permanently attached to the wires in my setup.

I think it's a 10dB deficiency based on most of the guitars and pickups we tested. For the FreePlay a 10 dB pad after activating the preamps seems to work, and a 20 dB on the Reach. Basically, anything in the ballpark seems to work with the FreePlay.

FYI, I originally wanted the Reach when it came out, but was deterred by the reviews of the preamps and the cost/value. Since then, I bought the JBL, which has some issues of it's own. So, I have a QSC mixer as the front end and can connect to any speaker. But that's really only convenient when I have more musicians playing along. The Play Acoustic works really well in front of everything because it offers individual channel gain and a master mixer output in the Play Acoustic mixer menu. It doesn't run on battery.

However, having "solved" these preamp issues with the Mackie stuff, I think I'd like to have the Reach at the discounted price and use it with the Play Acoustic and a direct box for another guitar player.

I really like some of the features and the excellent speaker dispersion design.

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I think it's a 10dB deficiency based on most of the guitars and pickups we tested. For the FreePlay a 10 dB pad after activating the preamps seems to work, and a 20 dB on the Reach. Basically, anything in the ballpark seems to work with the FreePlay.

FYI, I originally wanted the Reach when it came out, but was deterred by the reviews of the preamps and the cost/value. Since then, I bought the JBL, which has some issues of it's own. So, I have a QSC mixer as the front end and can connect to any speaker. But that's really only convenient when I have more musicians playing along. The Play Acoustic works really well in front of everything because it offers individual channel gain and a master mixer output in the Play Acoustic mixer menu. It doesn't run on battery.

However, having "solved" these preamp issues with the Mackie stuff, I think I'd like to have the Reach at the discounted price and use it with the Play Acoustic and a direct box for another guitar player.

I really like some of the features and the excellent speaker dispersion design.

After all of the work you put into this, there's no better suited Reach owner. I think and agree, Mackie ought to give you one.

[dannyg1]

Originally Posted by lkingston

Yes, a 20db pad seems to be the magic number, at least for the Reach with it's 30db gain XLR preamps. With the FreePlay it might likely be better with a 10db pad since it has 20db rather than 30db preamps, but I wouldn't recommend it without testing it first.

It really is no big deal for me. I always use either a Boss AD-2 or a Boss VE-8 to get a little resonance modeling. Using the balanced outs and adding the pad is pretty easy.

It is a hack though. It never should have made it through R & D and out to market like this. The fact that this considerable flaw is on so many of their products is stunning.

Oh well, for the bargained down refurb price I don't mind. The sound with the levels corrected is great. The spread out tweeters will let me use just one rather than two speakers. The side monitors are brilliant. I'll buy a small 20db pad and leave it permanently attached to the wires in my setup.

If the Reach is like the DLM8, the problem extends to using the XLR as well. Take a known good self powered PA speaker and plug one into the balanced XLR outs of a known good output mixer, use your Reach as the other side. Then try to match left and right levels (most noticeable towards high system levels).

That'll tell you.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by dannyg1

If the Reach is like the DLM8, the problem extends to using the XLR as well. Take a known good self powered PA speaker and plug one into the balanced XLR outs of a known good output mixer, use your Reach as the other side. Then try to match left and right levels (most noticeable towards high system levels).

That'll tell you.

That's true, but I'll only need one Reach speaker.

I've decided to make an offer for the refurbished Reach. If it works, I'll sell the JBL or keep it for larger audiences as a front of house speaker.

The JBL is an excellent speaker, but has a lousy mixer. However doing master slave with the Reach would be fine.

The benefit that I see is I won't have to bring the DLM8 as a monitor if I can use the Reach. The JBL will feedback if it is behind you as a monitor.

I would use the following:

1. Mackie FreePlay/DI for outdoor/battery or very small rooms.
2. Mackie Reach/Play Acoustic for medium rooms.
3. Mackie Reach/Play Acoustic and DLM8 or JBL Eon One for larger rooms.

If I have more musicians, I add the QSC touch mix to any of the above.

I'll keep the DLM 8 as reinforcement and my electric guitar FRFR Amp.