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  #16  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:07 AM
Athens Athens is offline
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Default Shims

I've removed several UST's and used Bob's shims and it's always improved the tone and/or sustain. But......cardboard?!

What surprises me is that Sweetwater would take a guitar back and not go through it before putting it back on the rack, especially if there was any indication that it had been changed in any way (you mentioned the mismatched bridge pins).

It certainly doesn't paint them in a good light, does it?
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:09 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Originally Posted by Goodallboy View Post
You stole my question. Why would you use shims when a new saddle is the proper cure?
Unique situation

Guitar is within the return period, and I wanted to see if raising the action would make the guitar less "plinky" since the action was quite low. My local shop wanted to charge me $50 for a new saddle plus install, and most bone saddles I've seen are $25-30.

Rather than spend the money on a guitar that I was thinking of returning, I ordered a $2 ebony shim to test out the action. In the process, I discovered the cardboard shim, installed my new ebony shim and discovered that the guitar came alive without the cardboard in the bridge.

So, in essence a $2 shim helped me know for sure I was going to keep the guitar. I wasn't going to spend another $30 when I was on the fence about keeping it in the first place.
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:09 AM
Steadfastly Steadfastly is offline
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Originally Posted by Shades of Blue View Post
I'm sure some of you have been following my saga regarding my Custom Shop 000-28. Without rehashing the situation, I'll just say that I almost returned the guitar. It sounded good, but I've been on the fence about it for about 6 weeks.

So, I decided to keep the guitar and bought some ebony shims from Bob Colosi (thanks Bob!). I spent an hour or so sanding the shim, and then I removed the saddle to finish it up when I saw something tan in the bridge. It was a cardboard shim. A cardboard shim (think chipboard like a shoe box) was on my new Martin, inspected and shipped to me from Sweetwater. Since this was a customer return, the guy who bought it first had the guitar set up, but the setup was horribly low. It was buzz city. I guess a shim was put in to correct it somewhat, but it is still low.

I put the ebony shim in and viola! It was like night and day. The guitar is louder, more punchy, and snappier. It was like I had a new guitar. Granted, I don't attribute this to the ebony shim as much as I do getting that horrid piece of chipboard out of the bridge.

Amazing. I almost sent this guitar back and now I have a tone machine. I'm going to get a new saddle made to the height of the shim plus the saddle, and that should make it even better!
That was a very "dull" story.

I can't see Sweetwater doing anything like that. It must have been the previous owner. Glad you found the problem.
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:11 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
I've removed several UST's and used Bob's shims and it's always improved the tone and/or sustain. But......cardboard?!

What surprises me is that Sweetwater would take a guitar back and not go through it before putting it back on the rack, especially if there was any indication that it had been changed in any way (you mentioned the mismatched bridge pins).

It certainly doesn't paint them in a good light, does it?
I've been 'round and 'round with Sweetwater over this guitar. They gave me a nice initial deal, and they've knocked even more money off of the guitar given the issues. Finding the cardboard shim was actually a blessing in a sense because it made the guitar come alive and now I can finally move on.

I just felt that the guitar had the potential to be great, but something was off the whole time. Glad I found it.
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:15 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Originally Posted by J Patrick View Post
...amazing...the nut and saddle are the two spots on the guitar that have to be right for a guitar to work properly...that a tech would cram a piece of chipboard in a saddle slot is incomprehensible...btw...i just received and installed a vintage bone saddle from Colosi for my Santa Cruz Tony Rice...absoulutely fantastic...Colosi is the man and I suggest you order a new saddle from him...
I'm definitely going to do that now. The reason I bought the $2 shim was to see if raising the action helped the plinkiness issue I as having of the strings slapping against the frets because the action was so low. I just didn't want to spend $30 on a saddle just to test action. I could have used a credit card, but I wanted something a little better in case it took me a few weeks to get the saddle and get it done properly.
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  #21  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:25 AM
Scootch Scootch is offline
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I've had two really bad experiences with Sweetwater and therefore do not do business with them.

Both involved my receiving repackaged instruments represented as new that were way sub-par. FWIW, they had no issues with taking it back, refund etc. I am sure they put them both back into stock and sent them right out again.

I know other folks love them, but not me.

I am happy you were able to fix your issue.
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:26 AM
J Patrick J Patrick is offline
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Originally Posted by Shades of Blue View Post
I'm definitely going to do that now. The reason I bought the $2 shim was to see if raising the action helped the plinkiness issue I as having of the strings slapping against the frets because the action was so low. I just didn't want to spend $30 on a saddle just to test action. I could have used a credit card, but I wanted something a little better in case it took me a few weeks to get the saddle and get it done properly.
...if you take your time and follow Bobs excellent instructions you can fit your new saddle easily by yourself...it took me about an hour and a half to fit it and string it back up...
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:33 AM
turbotom1052 turbotom1052 is offline
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if you live in an area of that sees high humidity in the summer season, then you can use your old saddle as a summer saddle, for the months that the top rises a bit.
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:34 AM
zombywoof zombywoof is offline
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I admit I have thrown shims made of old cut up credit cards in there as a quick fix. I have also used wedged pieces of cardboard between the string and the saddle to raise the action in a pinch. I am, however, not the Martin Custom Shop.

Personally though, I would have just swapped out the saddle if I did not like the action. I just did it to raise the action on a Harmony Sovereign that returned home all gussied up and ready to rock.
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  #25  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:42 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scootch View Post
I've had two really bad experiences with Sweetwater and therefore do not do business with them.

Both involved my receiving repackaged instruments represented as new that were way sub-par. FWIW, they had no issues with taking it back, refund etc. I am sure they put them both back into stock and sent them right out again.

I know other folks love them, but not me.

I am happy you were able to fix your issue.
I could see that. Honestly, since they boast about their inspection, they could theoretically ship out anything under the premise that it has been "inspected." But, when they let it slip out without even looking at it, there is an issue.

My 000-28 was listed as a demo, but it was actually a customer return. I received it with old dead strings, mismatched bridge pins, scratches all over the body, trash in the case, and a loose pick flopping around in the case.

They gave me $100 off the guitar and sent me a very nice "care package."
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  #26  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:47 AM
SugarmillMan SugarmillMan is offline
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Sweetwater should NEVER permit stuff like this to happen in the first place. As others have already mentioned, so much for Sweetwater's "55 point inspection" on every instrument. I guess that just just marketing hype.
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:47 AM
gfspencer gfspencer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shades of Blue View Post
Unique situation

Guitar is within the return period, and I wanted to see if raising the action would make the guitar less "plinky" since the action was quite low. My local shop wanted to charge me $50 for a new saddle plus install, and most bone saddles I've seen are $25-30.

Rather than spend the money on a guitar that I was thinking of returning, I ordered a $2 ebony shim to test out the action. In the process, I discovered the cardboard shim, installed my new ebony shim and discovered that the guitar came alive without the cardboard in the bridge.

So, in essence a $2 shim helped me know for sure I was going to keep the guitar. I wasn't going to spend another $30 when I was on the fence about keeping it in the first place.
Okay, I understand that. Glad you decided to keep the guitar!

For future reference, a compensated bone saddle . . . from the Martin 1833 Shop . . . is $15. I would go with a solid saddle because IMHO one solid saddle gives more structural integrity than a saddle and a shim. But if you get the sound that you want I guess it doesn't make any difference.

I'm constantly playing with saddle height. (I'm retired. I don't have anything else to do. ) I have screwed up one or two times and taken too much off the bottom of a saddle. I've never used shims to try to fix the mistake. I just buy a new saddle.
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  #28  
Old 12-11-2017, 09:03 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Originally Posted by gfspencer View Post
Okay, I understand that. Glad you decided to keep the guitar!

For future reference, a compensated bone saddle . . . from the Martin 1833 Shop . . . is $15. I would go with a solid saddle because IMHO one solid saddle gives more structural integrity than a saddle and a shim. But if you get the sound that you want I guess it doesn't make any difference.

I'm constantly playing with saddle height. (I'm retired. I don't have anything else to do. ) I have screwed up one or two times and taken too much off the bottom of a saddle. I've never used shims to try to fix the mistake. I just buy a new saddle.
I actually tried ordering one from Martin, but the shipping was $10, making it $25. I didn't anticipate the crux of the issue being the cardboard shim, otherwise I would have just went with a saddle to begin with haha.

Shame on me for not inspecting it myself.
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  #29  
Old 12-11-2017, 09:06 AM
Shades of Blue Shades of Blue is offline
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Originally Posted by SugarmillMan View Post
Sweetwater should NEVER permit stuff like this to happen in the first place. As others have already mentioned, so much for Sweetwater's "55 point inspection" on every instrument. I guess that just just marketing hype.
Sweetwater didn't give me any excuses and said they just missed it. Much better response than trying to claim they did inspect it. They made it right, and I've got no issues with ordering from them again.
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  #30  
Old 12-11-2017, 09:17 AM
hifivic hifivic is offline
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