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  #61  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:09 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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Right, now sum of these facts is called "musical theory". I said notes, intervals and scales...not notes on frets (even though that is a handy piece of knowledge for a guitarist) And most importantly it is what the OP asked about. "memorizing all these facts (which some of us call musical theory) makes ones head swirl" or something like that.

That something repeats 440 times per minute is a fact, to call that a tone of specific name and to give it a time duration, that is part of a theoretical system, whether you know anything about the background or not..

Last edited by Standicz; 10-20-2017 at 08:04 PM.
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  #62  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:43 PM
mattbn73 mattbn73 is offline
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I think it best to refer to common practice and common sense with the term "music theory". As it is widely used, the term includes references to basic musical "spelling and grammar", in addition to what you might call "theoretical" concepts in other disciplines.

Somewhat of a semantics argument as to whether note names are really "theory", but certainly when you start getting into intervallic relationships, keys etc. etc., those are more obviously theoretical anyway. I mean, yes, they have very concrete names which you can learn by rote, but it's all based on an organizational framework, or theory, whether you learn it or not. Just as the spelling of words have very concrete origins in root languages, phonetics, and grammatical rules etc. The fact that you can learn to spell them WITHOUT knowing origins or any other rules or grammar is somewhat beside the point. Still has a theoretical basis.
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  #63  
Old 10-20-2017, 07:55 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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very well put

Last edited by Standicz; 10-20-2017 at 08:00 PM.
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  #64  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:24 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
It not memorizing theory. It is memorizing facts. Within the western music system at any rate, a certain note on certain fret - a fact. Certain diatonic notes in a given scale - a fact. It is partially semantics, but also partially having a clearer and more realistic focus on dealing with the problem - memorizing facts.
Aside from the argument about what we call "theory," what I've learned in the past couple of years I would not refer to as memorizing facts. I've actually memorized as little as possible. What I did was gain a fundamental understanding of the systems of music, how all the elements of pitch, bass, melody, tempo, notes, intervals, chords, etc, etc fit together. I've come to understand the relationships and recognize patterns in them in the same way that we learn language, not by memorizing words and grammar, but by building an implicit linguistic system in our minds that allow us to recognize and to create phrases we've never encountered before to express thoughts that have never been expressed before.
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  #65  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SunnyDee View Post
Aside from the argument about what we call "theory," what I've learned in the past couple of years I would not refer to as memorizing facts. I've actually memorized as little as possible. What I did was gain a fundamental understanding of the systems of music, how all the elements of pitch, bass, melody, tempo, notes, intervals, chords, etc, etc fit together. I've come to understand the relationships and recognize patterns in them in the same way that we learn language, not by memorizing words and grammar, but by building an implicit linguistic system in our minds that allow us to recognize and to create phrases we've never encountered before to express thoughts that have never been expressed before.
Some of that is simply memorized data, but it is true that when you can legitimately start asking why you might do something a certain way (other than out of pure ignorance of facts) you are getting into theoretical territory.
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  #66  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:41 PM
Standicz Standicz is offline
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Originally Posted by SunnyDee View Post
Aside from the argument about what we call "theory," what I've learned in the past couple of years I would not refer to as memorizing facts. I've actually memorized as little as possible. What I did was gain a fundamental understanding of the systems of music, how all the elements of pitch, bass, melody, tempo, notes, intervals, chords, etc, etc fit together. I've come to understand the relationships and recognize patterns in them in the same way that we learn language, not by memorizing words and grammar, but by building an implicit linguistic system in our minds that allow us to recognize and to create phrases we've never encountered before to express thoughts that have never been expressed before.
Right on! I even find it almost impossible to learn things by mere memorization...I hardly remember names and dates and other things for that reason. But as soon as there is a meaningful system that I can understand, I will never ever forget it..

Question is, if such approach fits everyone..I guess not.
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  #67  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:52 PM
SunnyDee SunnyDee is offline
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Originally Posted by Standicz View Post
Right on! I even find it almost impossible to learn things by mere memorization...I hardly remember names and dates and other things for that reason. But as soon as there is a meaningful system that I can understand, I will never ever forget it..

Question is, if such approach fits everyone..I guess not.
I'm the same. I did everything I could NOT to have to memorize, but, of course, people learn differently.

Some things have to be memorized, but not as much as is commonly advised.
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Last edited by SunnyDee; 10-22-2017 at 03:13 AM.
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  #68  
Old 10-20-2017, 09:21 PM
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I'm the same. I did everything I could NOT to have to memorize, but, of course, people learn differently.
That would be your mistake IMO. However to each his own.
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  #69  
Old 10-26-2017, 09:59 PM
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Default Music Theory, Skipping It

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Originally Posted by 3notes View Post
Is this method logical, for lack of a better term.??
It depends on where you want to go with your music. With zero theory you’ll be very limited, but that might be just fine if your objectives are modest. As music get more complex theory helps you understand, communicate, compose, and learn new tunes more quickly. If you have a good teacher or are good at self-directed learning, skills that seem difficult at first eventually become easy. Learning the basics of harmony and chord voicings has really helped me grow as a player and kept me interested in the instrument.

Last edited by Nextguitar; 10-26-2017 at 10:19 PM.
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  #70  
Old 10-26-2017, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nextguitar View Post
It depends on where you want to go with your music. With zero theory you’ll be very limited, but that might be just fine if your objectives are modest. As music get more complex theory helps you understand, communicate, compose, and learn new tunes more quickly. If you have a good teacher or are good at self-directed learning, skills that seem difficult at first eventually become easy. Learning the basics of harmony and chord voicings has really helped me grow as a player and kept me interested in the instrument.
There you go. Good post.
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  #71  
Old 10-30-2017, 08:07 PM
Nextguitar Nextguitar is offline
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Default Music Theory, Skipping It

Here’s what the great Jimmy Bruno thinks about theory.
But by “theory” he seems to be talking about playing “this scale over that chord.” He knows harmony, and uses arpeggios and scales as a road map to navigate the instrument.
https://youtu.be/O9CcL6QeABg
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  #72  
Old 10-31-2017, 07:06 AM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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Originally Posted by amyFB View Post
I propose to say that thinking about note movements in half or whole steps is a component of music theory.
So, like it or not, I think the subconscious picks up at least some of what you consciously skip over.

However you get to your musical goals is really the important point and its different for each of us.
Jimmy Raney videos on YouTube are a great take on playing. Listen to a couple interviews/lectures. Very enlightening.
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  #73  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:30 PM
Todd Tipton Todd Tipton is offline
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Originally Posted by 3notes View Post
I personally don't like learning music theory. It racks my brain.
I think what frustrated me when I started learning theory so many years ago was that it wasn't directly useful to what I was doing on the guitar. In my studio, I gradually introduce fundamentals of music as it is immediately useful to what a student is currently working on. From that perspective, it becomes a tool making the task easier to learn, and helping the student to better understand guitar and music. Before long, a student has a fair bit of theory without even feeling the pains and effort. I wish I had been taught that way.
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  #74  
Old 11-02-2017, 06:59 PM
Wyllys Wyllys is offline
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https://youtu.be/JZy421SJSV8

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Last edited by Wyllys; 11-05-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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