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  #61  
Old 11-08-2014, 06:21 PM
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bnjp bnjp is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
The feeler gauges are flexible. They will conform to the curvature of the fingerboard. In the last year or so I've experimented with using gages. They are not flexible and do not conform to the fingerboard.
Of course, Stewmac has a tool for everything! If I used the feeler gauge method, I might be tempted by this.

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  #62  
Old 11-08-2014, 06:34 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
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Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post
I missed this until Murray responded.

The feeler gauges are flexible. They will conform to the curvature of the fingerboard.
Not mine, they don't Charles.

I frequently use a .025" and a .020" together (along with a thinner gauge as required) and these two don't bend.

Then again, I don't use them with the strings on ... my approach, which is different from yours, is to rough the slots down to <.008" above final height with the strings off, and then, with the strings on and up to pitch, finalise each slot by feel.

Chacun a son gout ...
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  #63  
Old 11-08-2014, 06:48 PM
Alan Carruth Alan Carruth is offline
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JLT quoted Bill Cumpiano as saying:
"The master has persevered past the errors until he's made all of them."

The problem with that is that errors are endless: you will never make all of them. What does happen is that the errors you make become less and less egregious in an absolute sense, while, at the same time, being more and more galling. As Dante said in the 'Divine Comedy' (Chardi's translation):"The closer a thing is to perfection the more it feels of pleasure or of pain". As your guitars get better the little things that didn't used to bother you become bigger issues, and you spend more time chasing those last problems. Perfection is, of course, asymptotic; you can get halfway from where you are to 'perfect' by simply doubling the effort you've already put in. If 50% takes a hundred hours, 75% takes 200, 87.5% takes 400, and so on. At some point you declare victory and move on, but you will never stop making mistakes.
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  #64  
Old 11-08-2014, 09:03 PM
Ned Milburn Ned Milburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carruth View Post
JLT quoted Bill Cumpiano as saying:
"The master has persevered past the errors until he's made all of them."

The problem with that is that errors are endless: you will never make all of them. What does happen is that the errors you make become less and less egregious in an absolute sense, while, at the same time, being more and more galling. As Dante said in the 'Divine Comedy' (Chardi's translation):"The closer a thing is to perfection the more it feels of pleasure or of pain". As your guitars get better the little things that didn't used to bother you become bigger issues, and you spend more time chasing those last problems. Perfection is, of course, asymptotic; you can get halfway from where you are to 'perfect' by simply doubling the effort you've already put in. If 50% takes a hundred hours, 75% takes 200, 87.5% takes 400, and so on. At some point you declare victory and move on, but you will never stop making mistakes.
I think the day I stop making errors will be the day I die. ;-) But I might even be mistaken about that!
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  #65  
Old 11-09-2014, 01:04 PM
gpj1136 gpj1136 is offline
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Anyone who has worked with wall mud knows that after several applications or coats When everything is 110% perfect, you then spray primer after which you can see how terrible it looks and fix it again.

Whats left after the final coat of finish are the only true mistakes. Those are the ones that give something it's character and makes it uniquely yours.
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  #66  
Old 11-09-2014, 09:08 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Originally Posted by gpj1136 View Post
Anyone who has worked with wall mud knows that after several applications or coats When everything is 110% perfect, you then spray primer after which you can see how terrible it looks and fix it again.

Whats left after the final coat of finish are the only true mistakes. Those are the ones that give something it's character and makes it uniquely yours.
As a former owner of a home improvement business and working for a builder, taping and plastering takes skill. I'm pretty good at it, getting a surface smooth enough for painting with minimal sanding. It takes about three coats. The plaster guys have to be good because there is no sanding at all.

But basically with drywall taping, a scratch coat is laid down, bedding the tape at the joints. Second coat builds on this, as there is shrinking and it doesn't have to be perfect. The final coat is done with a broad knife and feathers out the previous two coats, namely at the butt joints.

But basically you get good because you learn fast that sanding just plain sucks!
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  #67  
Old 11-10-2014, 10:26 AM
arie arie is offline
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Yep. But the Gibson devotees love them. They apparently stopped using nibs on the 2014 models and it's causing quite a stir.
i like gibson but i don't like those. on older guitars they get quite filthy and the file marks turn green and black. they just suck period. i suspect it saved them labor on nipping off the tang cleanly to lay the fret over the binding. gibson is so weird.

i don't make mistakes a lot, but when i do, they more then make up for it.
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  #68  
Old 11-12-2014, 11:41 PM
gpj1136 gpj1136 is offline
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Louie When I tape It's tape and two coats then touch up then texture no sanding, but unless it's smoothwall which does take sanding for me; it's never perfect. It is an illusion of perfect I guess I could have found a better analogy, but I was talking smoothwall, and it's difficult to see some shadows untill it's primed. At least it is for me.

Last edited by gpj1136; 11-12-2014 at 11:46 PM.
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  #69  
Old 11-13-2014, 03:59 AM
Tom West Tom West is offline
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Now That's a CAPO........................!!!!!
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  #70  
Old 11-13-2014, 05:54 PM
firefrets firefrets is offline
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May I chime in?

If I'm setting an acoustic up and it's time to do the nut, (I address the saddle first) I do it all using touch on the first fret.

Basically I figure the whole point of playing a guitar is to physically play it, so I press each individual string and then if necessary file, until I only have to touch the string to make contact with the fret.

If you cut too low it's easy enough to fill with a bit of glue and baking soda or flour etc, or if you have any dust over from the cut use that.

I then gently widen the slot (if necessary) so the string can be tuned up or down without snagging, and finally add some vaseline from a lip balm, or what ever is lying around. Some use a bit of pencil lead but it is messy and you don't need it.

The type of touch is generally the same gap above the 2nd fret if you press the 1st, and a touch lower if it's staying in the tuning it's cut in. If you change tuning a lot I leave it slightly higher, and just adjust the truss rod if needed for each new tuning.

Your nut is only as good as your saddle so getting both right is key.

I've never heard a Feeler gauge play guitar so until they show me they can play a melody I tend not to use them.

Having big gaps between your string and the fret is going to cause contact latency and throw your natural timing out as you subconsciously compensate, so for me a buzz is my friend, as it tells me that backing off a touch will be perfect, and over time you get your natural feel for action height.

...... or something like that.
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  #71  
Old 11-13-2014, 06:06 PM
JLT JLT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Carruth View Post
JLT quoted Bill Cumpiano as saying:
"The master has persevered past the errors until he's made all of them."

The problem with that is that errors are endless: you will never make all of them.

you can get halfway from where you are to 'perfect' by simply doubling the effort you've already put in. If 50% takes a hundred hours, 75% takes 200, 87.5% takes 400, and so on. At some point you declare victory and move on, but you will never stop making mistakes.
Some artist once said that a work of art is never finished. It is only abandoned. At the point, I guess, where that old law of diminishing returns kicks in. You are quite right about that.

The only thing I can add is a quote, ascribed to Voltaire: "Do not let the best be the enemy of the good." In other words, do your best, but if your best isn't perfect, don't let it bug you too much. My father was a master of that.
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  #72  
Old 11-13-2014, 06:17 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is online now
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Applicable to most any fretted instrument:

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