Traveling with CITES-list guitars

Dustinfurlow · #1 01-31-2019, 03:43 PM

Hey all,

It's fairly possible this may have been covered elsewhere but I'd like to hear from any touring artists here or frequent flyers who's guitars have endangered woods if they have had issues crossing borders or even taking domestic flights within the U.S? I've traveled twice now from east to west coast with my Madagascan b/s Larrivee and haven't had issues but I'm now thinking long term about my next build which I want to have African Blackwood (dalbergia) and bring on tour with me whenever possible. I seem to remember hearing from Linda Manzer that she got stopped at the Canadian border and thinks got complicated. Never heard of it happening for air travel but want to be on the safe side. Is it just a matter of having documentation on you from the luthier at all times?

Any stories or input are greatly appreciated. Thank you

tadol · #2 01-31-2019, 05:36 PM

I believe that they clarified the rules and a musician carrying their instrument are not going to be subject to problems -

Except maybe getting it onto the airplane -

colins · #3 02-01-2019, 04:09 AM

Personal travel with rosewoods other than BRW is legal – see https://reverb.com/au/news/new-cites...sewood-species and there are many other similar websites saying the same thing. I listed five or six on one AGF thread last year.

ABW and maddy are both Appendix 2 to which the above ruling applies. Guitars made from both are currently fine for personal travel. (BRW has been Appendix 1 for many years and is subject to stricter regulations).

I travelled around the world with my maddy rosewood guitar after the 2017 regulations took effect and was never stopped or questioned. Zero interest. Zip. Nothing. Same as every other time I have travelled with a guitar over the past fifteen years (thirty of forty flights?) both within the US and internationally. Only question I ever got was when I flew into Vancouver once for work (I’m an engineer) and the customs guy chatted about why an engineer travelled with a guitar, and then about Australia generally. It was a quiet day at customs!

Col

jt1 · #4 02-01-2019, 05:13 AM

Many countries recognize an exemption for personally carried, rather than shipped, guitars. Some countries, including the US, do not recognize this exemption for CITES Appendix I items (Brazilian, ivory, tortoise).

The best way, and safest to travel with an instrument that contains CITES listed material is to obtain a CITES Musical Instrument Certificate, a "passport" for your guitar.

Here is my how-to article for Fretboard Journal. I've obtained 2 of these for my guitars, and have renewed one. I've also assisted other touring musicians in acquiring them.

Mking · #5 02-01-2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt1

Many countries recognize an exemption for personally carried, rather than shipped, guitars. Some countries, including the US, do not recognize this exemption for CITES Appendix I items (Brazilian, ivory, tortoise).

The best way, and safest to travel with an instrument that contains CITES listed material is to obtain a CITES Musical Instrument Certificate, a "passport" for your guitar.

Here is my how-to article for Fretboard Journal. I've obtained 2 of these for my guitars, and have renewed one. I've also assisted other touring musicians in acquiring them.

This would be your best and safest course of action. Regardless of what your guitar is made of I can't imagine you having an issue traveling within the US. It's when you start crossing borders you might encounter problems.

jt1 · #6 02-01-2019, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mking

Regardless of what your guitar is made of I can't imagine you having an issue traveling within the US. It's when you start crossing borders you might encounter problems.

Correct. CITES only applies to the crossing of international borders.

D41Fan · #7 02-01-2019, 11:40 AM

Canada customs could not care less of what your guitar is made from. If your coming from the States, they want to know if your packing and how much dope you have. FYI, even though Canada is a Cannabis free country now, you will be charged and possibly jailed if you were to bring anything drug related to the border. Leave your drugs at home, we have enough drugheads here already! Seriously, don't bring a pipe, not even an ounce unless you want trouble. As for guns, unless you have papers to carry and you must declare right away, store them in a safe place or better yet just leave them at home..We have enough idiots here that have stolen guns and are using them.
It is not a smart thing to say there not mine, or I forgot they were there..You don't want to mess with customs.

Thanks,
Dan

AndrewG · #8 02-01-2019, 11:46 AM

From what I understand CITES may be easing restrictions on musicians travelling internationally with rosewood, but that has yet to be confirmed. I wouldn't risk meeting an over-zealous customs chap somewhere and having my guitar seized and destroyed, just because he may be ignorant of recent legislation.

Dustinfurlow · #9 02-01-2019, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jt1

Many countries recognize an exemption for personally carried, rather than shipped, guitars. Some countries, including the US, do not recognize this exemption for CITES Appendix I items (Brazilian, ivory, tortoise).

The best way, and safest to travel with an instrument that contains CITES listed material is to obtain a CITES Musical Instrument Certificate, a "passport" for your guitar.

Here is my how-to article for Fretboard Journal. I've obtained 2 of these for my guitars, and have renewed one. I've also assisted other touring musicians in acquiring them.

Thank you so much, John, and everyone who contributed input. Very helpful

gitarro · #10 02-01-2019, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewG

From what I understand CITES may be easing restrictions on musicians travelling internationally with rosewood, but that has yet to be confirmed. I wouldn't risk meeting an over-zealous customs chap somewhere and having my guitar seized and destroyed, just because he may be ignorant of recent legislation.

As in the other thread and earlier threads on the cites conference in Colombo in May 2019, apparently there will be a proposal tabled to give an exemption to finished musical instruments from the requirements on all Appendix II listed rosewood.

So if that is approved, then you could be travelling with your madrose guitar without any worries all over the world from September 2019 onwards.

Yrksman · #11 02-01-2019, 10:42 PM

I flew into London Heathrow from LAX on Thursday and declared a new guitar to customs. It is African Blackwood and Cedar with a lot of Abalone. I was asked for the receipt and charged the correct duty and VAT, albeit annoyingly using a month old inferior exchange rate. There was no interest whatsoever in what was in the case and I was not asked to open it.

Also I had no problem carrying the guitar onto my Air New Zealand flight. Nobody paid any attention to it.

colins · #12 02-02-2019, 12:15 AM

Here is an interesting article for you Dustin with particular reference to the upcoming meeting in May - https://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...ewood.1974375/

Let’s leave Brazilian out of this discussion for a moment, as it is in a separate CITES category to all the other rosewoods. My understanding is that personal travel with your maddie guitar or a new ABW guitar is already fine. The attention for the May 2019 meetings appears to be to free up the tighter restrictions that have been placed on instrument makers, and businesses or individuals that seek to ship (non Brazilian) rosewood guitars rather than hand carry them.

Now I'm in a quandary though. I am pretty definite about the above from the articles I have read, but I'm also conscious that John (jt1) has made a detailed study of this topic and I may be contradicting his comments about a passport.

John can you chime in again and clarify whether the passport is a must have or just a nice to have for personal travel with Appendix 2 rosewoods?

Col

AndrewG · #13 02-02-2019, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colins

Here is an interesting article for you Dustin with particular reference to the upcoming meeting in May - https://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...ewood.1974375/

Let’s leave Brazilian out of this discussion for a moment, as it is in a separate CITES category to all the other rosewoods. My understanding is that personal travel with your maddie guitar or a new ABW guitar is already fine. The attention for the May 2019 meetings appears to be to free up the tighter restrictions that have been placed on instrument makers, and businesses or individuals that seek to ship (non Brazilian) rosewood guitars rather than hand carry them.

Now I'm in a quandary though. I am pretty definite about the above from the articles I have read, but I'm also conscious that John (jt1) has made a detailed study of this topic and I may be contradicting his comments about a passport.

John can you chime in again and clarify whether the passport is a must have or just a nice to have for personal travel with Appendix 2 rosewoods?

Col

Personal travel within your own country doesn't need any documentation, but currently for international travel you currently need both an export certificate from your country, and an import certificate from where you are travelling to. As stated above this is mooted to be eased for travelling musicians with Appendix II rosewoods, but as far as I am aware no firm date has been set for the change to take effect from, if it indeed does change-and we still don't know for certain. If in doubt check with Customs.

AndrewG · #14 02-02-2019, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yrksman

I flew into London Heathrow from LAX on Thursday and declared a new guitar to customs. It is African Blackwood and Cedar with a lot of Abalone. I was asked for the receipt and charged the correct duty and VAT, albeit annoyingly using a month old inferior exchange rate. There was no interest whatsoever in what was in the case and I was not asked to open it.

Also I had no problem carrying the guitar onto my Air New Zealand flight. Nobody paid any attention to it.

Well I guess you got lucky; South African abalone (Perlemeon), is CITES listed, but determining what species a guitar might have is I suspect not easy for a customs chap.

Nama Ensou · #15 02-02-2019, 05:49 AM

I don't know of anyone that's ever been checked out for the woods on their guitars and I just finished crossing the Canadian border a total of six times with rosewood fingerboards and they didn't care that I even had guitars.

Flown countless times to Japan and England with no inspections ever having taken place, and a few times into Canada as well. Maybe some of them care, but it sure hasn't appeared to be so in my experiences over the years.