In the key of G what to play for a Bm?

[pdidmh1]

Thanks for the input. I will do some experimenting.

[rick-slo]

When using chromatic notes (often in the melody itself, or more at random) the distinctions between scales used over short term chords in a chord progression become blurred, as do the "rules". 👂

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by JonPR

However, you should base your phrases on the Bm chord tones - don't just noodle on the G major scale.
I.e., for any G major scale pattern you know, you should know where the Bm chord tones (B-D-F#) are; the others are passing notes.
Alternatively, for any Bm chord shape you know, you should know how the G major scale fits around it.

I don't disagree with this. I am merely pointing out a different outlook while doing the same thing. In my case I use the G major pentatonic and/or the G major scale and listen to what it sounds like. In my mind it's phrasing that makes scales work. In this case, as an example, I'd hit the B note on the first beat of the chord being used. Now you have a couple three beats until the next chord change. So, depending on what feeling you are trying to convey, you pick a couple or three other notes then the B again as you move (or the music moves) to the next chord. There are a million options really. You could start on a higher or lower note and as the B chord down beat starts walk the scale back to the B note. Before the chord change of coarse. To blow scale heads away I have used a theory that I tell people that are starting to play lead. You can play any notes anywhere at any time as long as you hit the chord note on the first beat or down beat on the chord change. In this case B.

[jseth]

Well, you've gotten a LOT of very in-depth theory-based answers already...

Here's what I do when I'm going to play single-note or solo stuff over a set of changes:

I look at the chord/rhythm chart (changes and time functions) and do a quick analyzsis of the harmony... noting any departures from diatonic movement and any 'odd" time bars. Then, using that information, along with the melody of the piece (truth is, I usually am fairly familiar with the songs I play, but for a less known piece, the melody is going to tell you what's what!)... and then I compose lines that evoke the feeling I have for the music, the rhythms, the changes, the subject matter of the lyrics (REALLY important!)...

And I go from there...

What I have learned from all the harmony and theory work I have done is that you can use ANY note, ANY where, provided that your INTENT is well-placed... and when you do that (thanks Thelonius Monk!), intellectuals will start writing articles about YOUR harmonic approach...

Don't forget, with all the formulas and "stats", if the MUSIC doesn't sound and feel right, nothing else matters!

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by JonPR

A simpler choice than the whole scale (a good subset of the scale) would be Bm pent, which is the 3 chord tones plus A and E.

This.

Also, beyond the one Bm chord, playing pentatonic-of-the-chord-of-the-moment is great overall practice for beginning chord-tone soloing. It will help overall sound on all diatonic chords vs simply playing up and down a major scale etc. You can play Gmaj pent for G, D Maj pent for D etc as well.

I'd call this Bm issue the "Wild Horses problem". G major pentatonic and basic G major scales kind of break down as a real strategy on that tune. The solutions to really being able to play it are going to end up being about emphasizing chord tones, and that's what pentatonic-of-the-chord-of-the-moment does.

[JimCA]

This whole thread is a disconnect for me. To me a chord has nothing to do with a scale. A chord is a root and a series of intervals from the root. Is the notion that certain voicings are a better match with a certain scale?

[mattbn73]

Originally Posted by JimCA

This whole thread is a disconnect for me. To me a chord has nothing to do with a scale. A chord is a root and a series of intervals from the root. Is the notion that certain voicings are a better match with a certain scale?

In the end, it's all about "whatever sounds good". There are just certain ways of organizing an approach to get more quickly to discovering things which sound good or even just for making SENSE of someone else's playing - which ALREADY sounds good.

If you analyse great playing with regard to chord tones etc, you're going to see some of these patterns. In the end, it's really just a beginning approach or shortcut to possibly get you more quickly into "things which sound good", so you practice them to a point where you aren't thinking about them in any contrived way. They're just natural.

Not rules etc.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by JimCA

This whole thread is a disconnect for me. To me a chord has nothing to do with a scale. A chord is a root and a series of intervals from the root. Is the notion that certain voicings are a better match with a certain scale?

No, this is about improvising, or creating melodies on the chord. (Apologies if any of the following is self-evident, we may be at cross-purposes here.)

The chord tones would be the obvious starting point, and perhaps all you need if the chord doesn't last too long.
But if you want more notes, that's where decisions have to be made.
Outside the 3 chord tones, there are 9 other possibilities! Are they all equally OK, or is there a system by which some will sound better than others (to save us having to test out all 9 and see how they sound).
You might say, surely there are only 4 other choices? We have B D and F# in the chord, leaving A C E and G. But what kinds of A C E or G? Any of them could be sharp or flat.

Normally the choice is easy and intuitive. When writing a song (or improvising), the chord will be part of a sequence of other chords. The natural thing is to use notes from those other chords as passing notes. If you were singing a melody over the chords, that would be the intuitive choice - your ear would tell you, not any theory. This choice is known as "the scale of the key", or the "diatonic scale" - the set of notes from which (in the simplest kinds of music) each chord is drawn.

So, in this case, the OP stated his sequence was "in G major", which gives us A C E and G as the 4 "diatonic" passing notes available on the Bm chord. We don't have to know those note names, or anything about the concepts known as "the G major scale", or "the key of G major". If we have the chords under our fingers on the guitar, then we're already playing the notes in question. C, E and G are all in the C chord, and A will be in the D chord; E and G are also in Em, and A C and E are in Am.

That doesn't mean you have to use all 4 extra notes - that all 4 will sound equally good - and neither does it mean that outside ("chromatic") notes can't be used. Jazz and blues players will probably want (at least) one or two chromaticisms, to sound more edgy or funky.

The ear always rules when it comes to a final choice. Most people's ears would probably recognise that A and E sound good on the Bm chord, while C and G are maybe a little problematic, at least if you hold them or stress them. Those with more adventurous ears (or more playing experience) may like to try C# or G# - even though they are out of key. There are theoretical terms to describe these differences and effects, of course (describe, not explain or justify), but the ear is a reliable enough judge - working from what is already given in the other chords.

[JimCA]

Originally Posted by JonPR

(Apologies if any of the following is self-evident, we may be at cross-purposes here.)

Not self-evident to me. Thanks for this useful post.

[Mr. Jelly]

Originally Posted by JimCA

This whole thread is a disconnect for me. To me a chord has nothing to do with a scale. A chord is a root and a series of intervals from the root. Is the notion that certain voicings are a better match with a certain scale?

I find peoples different ways of conceptualizing how to play the guitar fascinating. The way I conceptualize playing the guitar is what makes me sound like me. Or you could say it keeps me within the box. I continually listen to youtube players and look at tabs etc. to find ways to get me out of my box. Which at some point as you learn just means you are in a bigger box. I know I lost you on that one :-). What I am continually looking for is other peoples different ways of conceptualizing playing the guitar. As examples Hendrix, Chet Atkins, Norman Blake and Jose Feliciano appear to approach playing the guitar from different angles. Interesting isn't it?

[tbeltrans]

There seems to be a sort of continuum along which musicians lie. At one end is those who are very intuitive and at the other, those who are very intellectual. Whether this is really true, I can't state as fact, so I say "seems".

There are those that I have either directly observed or read about, who seem to be totally intuitive, playing by the sounds they want to hear. To me, these are the true artists, those whom the intellectuals write about and from whom they derive theory to explain what the intuitive players come up with.

There are those who are really intellectual, the musicologist types who can explain all this theory and tell us how things should be, but whom we have never seen play or heard any music from.

In between, are the rest of us, some more intellectual, and others maybe more intuitive, but all of whom seem to have some combination of both, some of whom have posted videos or MP3s so at least we know something about them musically.

I am seeing that again in this thread.

Regardless of where we each fall on such an imaginary continuum, we do need to remember that, ultimately, music is a HEARING art for both listener and performer. Don't be afraid to leave the "rules" and explore what YOU want to hear as you play.

Some folks will take exception to this advice, and that is to be expected, while others will embrace it. So be it.

Tony

[Llewlyn]

Though if the OP asks "what scale on a Bm" it doesn't seem much helpful to say "whatever sounds good to you"....

:P

Ll.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Llewlyn

Though if the OP asks "what scale on a Bm" it doesn't seem much helpful to say "whatever sounds good to you"....

:P

Ll.

In my posts, I have answered that and to say "whatever sounds good to you". I have already reiterated that in previous posts here.

Also, I have posted videos of my playing, rather than just sounding off here. I personally think that a person asking questions will want to know what folks who are answering, are about musically. Can the person really play, or is s/he just repeating something that was read somewhere that sounding convincing?

We seem to have some sort of fundamental disagreement about music, though I don't really know what it is.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

Here is a very short, rough sketch I just did to illustrate...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xkrjxq75ii...U0200.WAV?dl=0

What we have here is a iii vi ii V iii vi ii V I progression with a quick lead on top.

Here is the G major scale:

G A B C D E F# G
I ii iii IV V vi viio I

So the progression is:

Bmi Emi Ami D Bmi Emi Ami D G

[Note: this simple "theory" one would need to be able to communicate with other musicians. It is nothing more than the G major scale harmonized in thirds.]

I am learning to use my Roland CD-2u recorder, so I don't quite have the timing and overdubbing and relative volumes down solid yet, but I think you can hear the lead against the chords. When playing a lead, I try to come up with some sort of melody so it doesn't just seem like noodling.

This was just off the top of my head and is kept very, very simple so you can hear what is going on. I stayed at or below the 7th position, so it should be easy enough to figure out what I was playing. If not, I can figure out the notes easily enough and post that too. I just played what sounded OK to me, rather than thinking about this or that scale or mode and getting all intellectual about it, though it is really nothing more than a pentatonic scale when it comes down to it. I didn't just pluck the notes out of the blue, I do know my scales. I just don't obsess about it.

I just wanted to illustrate what I have been talking about in this thread, keeping it simple.

Tony

[mattbn73]

Sheesh.

Again. B minor pentatonic.

Sorry if that's overly theoretical....