External mic and pre for Q3HD

Thomas Rein · #1 08-09-2013, 04:27 AM

I spent some time with in a friend's recording studio comparing different mic setups with the Zoom Q3HD. We recorded solo acoustic guitar with the Q3HD in stock configuration and with various external mics through a preamp. By using headphones as a monitor we arrived at the best placement for each setup. Bottom line is the external mic/pre setup sounded way better and more natural than the Q3HD's integrated mics.
Only problem was that the mic we used by itself cost more than the Q3HD and I don't even know how much the preamp cost, but I am sure it was very expensive as well.
My question is: Have any of you tried a mic/pre setup with any of the small field recorders that doesn't break the bank? Mainly I am looking to record some nice sounding soundclips for posting on Soundcloud or videos on YouTube or Vimeo.

ChuckS · #2 08-09-2013, 07:52 AM

I've been doing audio recordings at home (with a Zoom H4, not a video recorder) and have had reasonably good results with my setup. I'm using an Octava MC-012 mic (get used around $150?), a Fathead ribbon (new around $150?), and a M-Audio DMP3 preamp (used less than $100).

I'd suggest recording in stereo (spaced pair) if at all possible. If not, the Octava does an ok job by itself.

Here's a link to some of my most recent recordings with my Carruth 12-fret 000. Recorded with an Oktava MC-012 condensor located 22" from the 18th fret, 30 degrees off axis towards the peghead and a Cascade Fathead ribbon located 24" from the bridge, 30 degrees off axis towards the tail. M-Audio DMP3 preamp. Zoom H4 recorder, at 44.1KHz sampling, 24 bit, limiter on. No EQ except to level response of ribbon mic. No effects.

Here's a link to Great Dream From Heaven:

http://soundcloud.com/chuck_s/great-...aven-2/s-0CRex

Here's a link to Fair and Tender Maidens:

http://soundcloud.com/chuck_s/fair-a...dens-2/s-yNB1w

Here's a link to the set of 6 songs on this guitar:

http://soundcloud.com/chuck_s/sets/c...et-000/s-KU5yS

KevWind · #3 08-09-2013, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Rein

I spent some time with in a friend's recording studio comparing different mic setups with the Zoom Q3HD. We recorded solo acoustic guitar with the Q3HD in stock configuration and with various external mics through a preamp. By using headphones as a monitor we arrived at the best placement for each setup. Bottom line is the external mic/pre setup sounded way better and more natural than the Q3HD's integrated mics.
Only problem was that the mic we used by itself cost more than the Q3HD and I don't even know how much the preamp cost, but I am sure it was very expensive as well.
My question is: Have any of you tried a mic/pre setup with any of the small field recorders that doesn't break the bank? Mainly I am looking to record some nice sounding soundclips for posting on Soundcloud or videos on YouTube or Vimeo.

Thomas I have not used a Zoom so I'll just address some general thoughts.
What computer are you using PC or Mac ?
First , it might be more efficient and fruitful if you could offer a price range of what you consider "won't break the bank" to be $500 for both, $1000, $2000,$4000 ?

The very general rule of thumb is the better the recording the better it will sound in any format. BUT that said, if right now the Zoom is the only recording gear you have, it may not really be all that beneficial sound wise and certainly not cost wise to attempt to upgrade to an external mic and pre. Just to put sound and video up on You Tube ,Vimeo and Sound Cloud. Unless your budget range is more in the $ 1 to 2k range.
Because.
In that studio situation. I am assuming you were enjoying the sonic benefits of not only the external mic and pre but also using the studio grade converters and monitoring. With most external mic and pres, you also going to need an interface to get into the computer. so you would be looking at three items minimum and realistically 4. Since the zoom has two mics on board. You would be looking at 2 mics a 2 channel pre, and 2 channel interface.

All that said one really cost effective solution (if your computer is a Mac) would be the Apogee Duet 2

Fran Guidry · #4 08-09-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Rein

I spent some time with in a friend's recording studio comparing different mic setups with the Zoom Q3HD. We recorded solo acoustic guitar with the Q3HD in stock configuration and with various external mics through a preamp. By using headphones as a monitor we arrived at the best placement for each setup. Bottom line is the external mic/pre setup sounded way better and more natural than the Q3HD's integrated mics.
Only problem was that the mic we used by itself cost more than the Q3HD and I don't even know how much the preamp cost, but I am sure it was very expensive as well.
My question is: Have any of you tried a mic/pre setup with any of the small field recorders that doesn't break the bank? Mainly I am looking to record some nice sounding soundclips for posting on Soundcloud or videos on YouTube or Vimeo.

I've done quite a few posts at my Homebrewed Music blog concerning the Q3HD. When I use a mic and preamp I've used my M-Audio DMP3 and various mics. I've also hooked up a small portable recorder and taken the headphone output into the Q3HD input.

Over at the Gearslutz acoustic and classical recording discussion section, Line Audio mics and preamps get a lot of love for their excellent price to performance ration.

Here's a playlist of videos all shot with the Q3HD, the M-Audio DMP3, and a pair of AT3035 mics: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...PH_Yw_6oVibMA3

Fran

islandguitar · #5 08-09-2013, 09:00 AM

I'm not expert in these matters, but have a Zoom H4n to which I've gradually evolved into using this kind of set up.
Instead of using the on board mics, I have two condensers, one more expensive than the other, which run into a Rane two channel acoustic pre amp. .....and then into the Zoom outlets. The sound quality is MUCH better overall, something even my ears can tell right away!
Cost break down for my little set up is/was:
Sure KSM 137 $300 (new)
MXL 604 $100 (used)
Zoom H4N $ 270( new, today's approx price)
Pre amp $125 (used, would have been around $400 new)
Misc cables,
mis stands ........$ $150 (?)Purchased new.

I load the Zoom file into Audacity and work with the file from there......

For whatever it's worth.........

Thomas Rein · #6 08-09-2013, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevWind

In that studio situation. I am assuming you were enjoying the sonic benefits of not only the external mic and pre but also using the studio grade converters and monitoring.

Thanks to all for the quick replies. Key, you touched on another option I have been mulling over, which is to get an iPad and Apogee mic. Presently my kids both have Apples but the old man is stuck with a PC.
I don't plan on doing lots of post-recording processing since folks like to hear what a guitar sounds like dry.
It is true that one of the reasons the Q3HD sounded very good was that it was running through a high end board and speakers in the studio. The difference between the integral mics and external mic/pre was clearly audible, which to me indicates the recording part of the Q3HD is actually pretty good. The reference quality gear in the studio showed the capability of the Q3HD.
I am pretty ambivalent about using the video portion of the recorder for demo videos. Watching a guitarist playing a guitar on his or her lap is not scintillating viewing, so I am leaning to just using audio on Soundcloud.

KevWind · #7 08-10-2013, 07:04 AM

I am not familiar with the Apogee mic but in general Apogee makes good gear.

Just a note for reference about Sound Cloud, you can upload full resolution files. However for those to be heard you will have to set your Sound Cloud preferences for download capable. So your potential customers will have to download the files to hear them. Other wise the direct streaming feature (like the link below my sig. line) will be compressed to 128 bit MP3. Which won't make much difference if listening from a computer but is slightly ( less present, for lack of a better term) from full resolution on a good Hi Fi monitoring system.

Thomas Rein · #8 08-10-2013, 08:02 PM

Kev, I should have had my glasses on as I read your name as KeyWind. Thanks for the info about Soundcloud. The streaming format seems much more in keeping with some quick soundclips. So it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference with gear on the front end since the so much of the data will be compressed to stream.
And Chuck, thanks for posting the links to your Soundcloud songs. Very nice playing and the sound comes through very well.

KenW · #9 08-11-2013, 08:55 AM

What is your budget? Factor in monitors and a bit of sound treatment. I understand what you are saying about people wanting to hear guitars dry.

My first recording setup was to demo sound samples of my guitars to potential customers. It consisted of 2 Sennheiser e914's into a Presonus Bluetube dual pre straight into a Fostex CR500, I'd then take the CD to my PC and edit in CoolEdit. The sound samples on my website here was made with this setup. The e614's are a lower cost version of the e914's, I think they are one of the best kept secrets in the microphone world. Why not use an interface right into your PC?

Thomas Rein · #10 08-11-2013, 01:31 PM

The budget has not been firmly established yet. Just trying to weigh the options. An iPad with an Apogee MIC straight in is looking very good right now. An iPad would have wider utility for a variety of tasks than a hot-rodded Q3. Add up a decent external pre and one or two mics and you're over the price of an iPad.
I think this demo clip on Apogee's site sounds really good:
https://soundcloud.com/apogeedigital...ng-ukulele-and