Subwoofer for small PA

[jaybones]

+1 on the Mackie powered subs!!

Maybe not an 18" speaker, depending on what surface the sub is placed on. If its outside on grass then the 18" will be better. If its on a hard surface you could probably get by with the 12" or so.

[jomaynor]

In your situation, I would get some monitors before I would would consider buying subs.

[slewis]

I'm basically an audio bonehead, and I never understand this question. I thought subs handled the really low end -- so low that that guitars and human vocals don't even produce them. So that's either incorrect, or there's no point, really, at all, to using subs when you're, for example, just singing and playing guitar. Is there???

[pipedwho]

Originally Posted by slewis

I'm basically an audio bonehead, and I never understand this question. I thought subs handled the really low end -- so low that that guitars and human vocals don't even produce them. So that's either incorrect, or there's no point, really, at all, to using subs when you're, for example, just singing and playing guitar. Is there???

When I'm going through a PA with strong sub response, I almost always heavily EQ out everything below 100Hz on vocals. A sole acoustic guitar can benefit when palm muting for that extra thump. But, for regular playing it doesn't seem to make that much difference, and if you are playing along side drums or bass, you've probably already had to remove all those low frequencies anyway to let the guitar cut through the mix.

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by Aaron Smith

Just my opinion... it makes a big difference. When we're trying to travel light I just use a pair of QSC K10's without a sub, and it sounds good. But when I take the trouble to bring my Mackie 1801 powered sub, it makes a big difference. Especially with outdoor shows.

This ^^^^

Originally Posted by slewis

I'm basically an audio bonehead, and I never understand this question. I thought subs handled the really low end -- so low that that guitars and human vocals don't even produce them. So that's either incorrect, or there's no point, really, at all, to using subs when you're, for example, just singing and playing guitar. Is there???

Not necessarily; it depends on the low-end capability of the mains, as well as the cross-over point.(or Hi-pass filter on the mains).

Speaking in very general terms, an "average" 12" main, when used with a sub, might be handling everything from 100Hz and up, and the sub handles everything below 100Hz. It varies depending on brand/model, but typically, it's can vary between 90Hz (JBL PRX for example) to 120Hz for lesser brands.

Some mains are more capable than others when it comes to handling low-end frequencies (Yorkville NX55P for example), while others can start rolling off those lows prematurely. Many designs add a "bass-boost" function to the mains in order to compensate for the loss of low-end, but the implementation of that design can vary dramatically. The K-series boxes for example, have a bass-boost function called "DEEP*", and this function boosts everything below 250Hz (if I'm remembering correctly). Unfortunately, this has a very negative effect on vocals. (loss of intelligibility). I prefer to see a bass-boost function that doesn't alter anything above 125Hz.

One of my pro-sound buddies runs the EVELX-12's; great intelligibility, but he finds that they generally tend to be lacking in low-end capability, and a decent sub is required in order to provide depth and punch.

Now, does the OP "need" a sub??? Maybe,,, maybe not. That'll depend on the room,,, crowd-noise,,,the sound-pressure level desired,,,, indoors vs outdoors,,,,and the style of music. (percussive guitar/palm-mutes, and that "homemade stomp/drum" he's using.

Now, I'm obviously just skimming the surface ,,,, there's a lot more to "adding subs" than what I've mentioned here. By the way, the size of the mains low-frequency driver alone, has nothing to do with low-end capability. Also, the hardest job a typical "mains" loudspeaker has, is reproducing those lows "at volume". By adding a sub to those mains, and letting the sub do the grunt work, you can get a lot more volume from those mains before clipping.

Again, that's just skimming the surface.

[EScottG]

Thanks again for all of the good advice.

Also, the hardest job a typical "mains" loudspeaker has, is reproducing those lows "at volume". By adding a sub to those mains, and letting the sub do the grunt work, you can get a lot more volume from those mains before clipping.

I think this is what I'm after...at outdoor shows we run the two ELX112P's with no monitors and turn just one of them slightly our way. These speakers seem to have pretty wide dispersion side-to-side, and I try to turn the one that will be our "monitor" just enough for us to get a slice of sound and still minimize the bleed-over into the mic. The other speaker is more out front and that's where I'm thinking that one sub underneath might really help to project better to the back of the audience. It sounds like from some of the replies that there's a chance the 12" ZXA1 might work (which would be great for budget, my back and car space) so I need to educate myself on reading specs to see how it would match up with the ELX112P, since most of the applications I've read about are using it with the 8" ZXA1-90 mains.

Thanks again
Scott

[lschwart]

Originally Posted by EScottG

Thanks again for all of the good advice.



I think this is what I'm after...at outdoor shows we run the two ELX112P's with no monitors and turn just one of them slightly our way. These speakers seem to have pretty wide dispersion side-to-side, and I try to turn the one that will be our "monitor" just enough for us to get a slice of sound and still minimize the bleed-over into the mic. The other speaker is more out front and that's where I'm thinking that one sub underneath might really help to project better to the back of the audience. It sounds like from some of the replies that there's a chance the 12" ZXA1 might work (which would be great for budget, my back and car space) so I need to educate myself on reading specs to see how it would match up with the ELX112P, since most of the applications I've read about are using it with the 8" ZXA1-90 mains.

Thanks again
Scott

It's not about the size of the woofer in the tops; it's about the crossover point (and what you're using to achieve it--internal HPF or LPF, external crossover, etc.).

Louis

[Bobby1note]

Originally Posted by EScottG

Thanks again for all of the good advice.



I think this is what I'm after...at outdoor shows we run the two ELX112P's with no monitors and turn just one of them slightly our way. These speakers seem to have pretty wide dispersion side-to-side, and I try to turn the one that will be our "monitor" just enough for us to get a slice of sound and still minimize the bleed-over into the mic. The other speaker is more out front and that's where I'm thinking that one sub underneath might really help to project better to the back of the audience. It sounds like from some of the replies that there's a chance the 12" ZXA1 might work (which would be great for budget, my back and car space) so I need to educate myself on reading specs to see how it would match up with the ELX112P, since most of the applications I've read about are using it with the 8" ZXA1-90 mains.

Thanks again
Scott

The small EV subs are ok indoors (small venue, and depending on the genre of music), but I'd be looking elsewhere for "serious" low-end,,,,especially for outdoor applications. If I remember correctly, those are 200w RMS subs; (400w program/ 800w peak).