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  #16  
Old 12-15-2017, 01:59 AM
Andy Howell Andy Howell is offline
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I write and perform about 98% of my own songs as well.

My songs are stories that I want to tell for some reason or another. Initially, what matters is that I like the song. A song stays in the repertoire when it is clear it goes down well - with some people. I echo the comments above about not everyone liking everything.

I treat covers in a similar way. Does the song say something I want to say? Is it a beautiful tune or have lyrics that really tell? If I do rehearse a cover I do so by making it my own - I don’t listen to the original. The tune needs to flow for me, I need to be able to phrase it for me and so on! Often I’ve learnt a song from a cover. When I finally hear the original I’m often a long way off but it in a good way.

Covers appeal to me if:

The song says something that I want to say but better than I have been able to say it (so far);

The song is great fun;

The song reflects something important in the present time.

So, I treat the song as I do my own. There is a long rehearsal phase no ensure the phrasing is right, the accompaniment is right and that I can create a total performance I am happy with.

My covers tend not to be obvious ones. Playing live they tend to come when I’m asked to extra stuff at the end.

I have given my closest family and friends instructions to shoot me if I ever start singing Eagles songs :-)
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  #17  
Old 12-15-2017, 04:49 AM
Silurian Silurian is offline
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Originally Posted by Glennwillow View Post
Yes, fair enough!!!

I must admit that the first time I heard Eric Clapton play Layla acoustically, I thought, ... Oh No! What has he done!! ... And I'm pretty sure a lot of people had a similar reaction, or worse. It grew on me after a while, though.

Still, the electric guitar part on the original Layla, regardless of what the song was about, was so appealing, I think it's only natural for those of us who like the sound of a well played electric guitar to be a little appalled that he was now abandoning that sound. But then, with the acoustic guitar, there would have been no way to get that sound. If it had been me, I would have left the acoustic version of the song out of the show. Really.

- glenn
When I first heard the acoustic version I was very unsure but I read/heard an interpretation that made a lot of sense to me:

The electric version is a young man's song. It is full of youthful vigour and desire that speaks of a young man in love.
He is speaking to layla.

The acoustic is an older man's song, it is more introspective, it speaks from a lifetime of experience and even cynicism.
He is speaking to himself.



I prefer Clapton's acoustic version now.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2017, 03:13 PM
mmcs1202 mmcs1202 is offline
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I think a lot of people don't like seeing a song they like being "altered" in someone's cover version. I certainly did- until I began doing it myself -lol!

I put my own "spin" on the covers I do, but still try to keep from veering too far from the original. Most people seem to like the result (but a few don't- that's to be expected).
That being said, there are a few songs I happen to think just shouldn't be "messed" with...and I still tend to hate when someone takes a song I happen to love and "butchers" it into something completely different.

One of my covers that people seem to like (including the original songwriter):

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  #19  
Old 12-20-2017, 06:41 PM
Reasley Reasley is offline
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Originally Posted by mmcs1202 View Post
I think a lot of people don't like seeing a song they like being "altered" in someone's cover version. I certainly did- until I began doing it myself -lol!

I put my own "spin" on the covers I do, but still try to keep from veering too far from the original. Most people seem to like the result (but a few don't- that's to be expected).
That being said, there are a few songs I happen to think just shouldn't be "messed" with...and I still tend to hate when someone takes a song I happen to love and "butchers" it into something completely different.

One of my covers that people seem to like (including the original songwriter):

Your covers of "Long Long Time" & "Someday Soon" are simply gorgeous. I probably teared up a bit on the first song -- it's such a powerful and sad song lyrically and your lilting voice really "sells" your cover. Very nice job . . .

Richard
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:05 PM
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For me part of making a song your own is doing songs that are you. We can learn any song and perform it. If the subject, sound, outlook, attitude are not "you" it is not going to make it.
I have a nerd cardiologist friend that loves to do scorned broken hearted trucker songs. It just does not work for him. It comes off as sad and pathetic. Just because a person identifies with an image or identity of a song does not mean it fits "you." Unless you can sound like the original.
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  #21  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:52 PM
Reasley Reasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
For me part of making a song your own is doing songs that are you. We can learn any song and perform it. If the subject, sound, outlook, attitude are not "you" it is not going to make it.
I have a nerd cardiologist friend that loves to do scorned broken hearted trucker songs. It just does not work for him. It comes off as sad and pathetic. Just because a person identifies with an image or identity of a song does not mean it fits "you." Unless you can sound like the original.
Mr. Jelly absolutely nails it here and . . . THAT'S HILARIOUS!!!! A cardiologist playing sad trucker's songs? LMBO.

We should start another thread of "mismatched performers/songs." I'll start: I love James Taylor. But NO WAY am I ever gonna play "Handyman," and neither should any of the rest of the baby boomer guys on this site. Listen to the first verse: "Hey, girls, gather round . . ." 'Nuff said . . .

Speaking of mismatches, one of my favorite "teachers" on YouTube is kirbyscovers. If you've never watched his videos, these are a MUST-SEE and for many reasons:

1) He is one of the best guitarists at rhythm that I've ever seen. Watch him play "Rock-N-Roll-Hootchie-Coo" and you'll see what I'm saying.

2) He has hundreds of videos. He has a website where he teaches and he uses YouTube as a sampler. Name a pop song and he's probably done it.

3) He, like so many of us, had a dream of being a famous musician. But he doesn't have the (self-acknowledged) vocal chops OR the "right look." Therefore, watching him play some of these song is a blast because a) he is good and b) there's a reason why he isn't a rock star.

OK, I'm gonna go start the mismatched song/performer thread . . .

Richard
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  #22  
Old 12-20-2017, 10:06 PM
tonyo tonyo is offline
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When I was in my teens, if someone did a cover and didn't play it note for note like the original, I was very critical.

To quote a line from My Back Pages: Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now

My view is much different now. When you watch this version of Billie Jean, imagine how much we would have missed out on if they'd copied Michael Jackson note for note.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=441mR2zsQbg

When I first started performing covers the only way I could play them was my own "interpretation". Now that I've been playing for a few years, I'm able to copy the original artist much better. I still gladly play my own interpretation on a lot of songs.

One thing I've noticed is that with sing along covers, if you play it different to the original, you'll get people trying to sing along with the original rather than yourself. Either that or I only play to drunk people. :-)

I'd find it boring if everyone did covers as a note for note copy of the original. No, make that VERY boring.
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  #23  
Old 12-21-2017, 01:00 AM
mmcs1202 mmcs1202 is offline
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Originally Posted by Reasley View Post
Your covers of "Long Long Time" & "Someday Soon" are simply gorgeous. I probably teared up a bit on the first song -- it's such a powerful and sad song lyrically and your lilting voice really "sells" your cover. Very nice job . . .

Richard
Wow...what an amazing compliment. Thanks so much for the kind words, Richard😊. This definitely made my day(!).
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  #24  
Old 12-21-2017, 10:52 AM
Reasley Reasley is offline
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Wow...what an amazing compliment. Thanks so much for the kind words, Richard😊. This definitely made my day(!).
You're welcome!

I've been thinking of some Dan Fogelberg songs that would be great covers for you. If we could rewrite "Another Auld Lang Syne" from the female perspective, that would be a good one, but I can't figure out a substitute so the guy is not "spilling his purse," LOL.

"Longer" would, of course, be great for you, too. But some think that it has been overplayed. My question: how can absolute greatness ever be overplayed?
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  #25  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:10 PM
Tahitijack Tahitijack is offline
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I play in an instrumental surf music band. While we want to give the audiences the feel of the original we tend to put our interpretation of certain parts of each song. As an example, "Sleepwalk" is a very short song. We noticed that often folks would get up to dance just as we rounded the last turn and were heading for home. So in stead of ending the song we played a vamp until we returned to the top and played it through again. A two minute song now lasts more than four minutes. On "Baja" we extend the intro which gets heads bobbing and feet tapping. Since the majority of our set list songs run about 2 minutes we have developed ways to stretch them out. During rehearsals we often de-construct a song and everyone makes suggestions on how to improve the way we play it.
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  #26  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:35 PM
Reasley Reasley is offline
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Originally Posted by Tahitijack View Post
I play in an instrumental surf music band. While we want to give the audiences the feel of the original we tend to put our interpretation of certain parts of each song. As an example, "Sleepwalk" is a very short song. We noticed that often folks would get up to dance just as we rounded the last turn and were heading for home. So in stead of ending the song we played a vamp until we returned to the top and played it through again. A two minute song now lasts more than four minutes. On "Baja" we extend the intro which gets heads bobbing and feet tapping. Since the majority of our set list songs run about 2 minutes we have developed ways to stretch them out. During rehearsals we often de-construct a song and everyone makes suggestions on how to improve the way we play it.
This is a fantastic example! And, that has to be a blast playing in an instrumental surf band, right?

When I first came to Baylor University (a conservative Baptist university) in the fall of 1989, the Beach Boys were playing our concert venue here and, of course, I went to the concert. Imagine my surprise when they had about two dozen girls in bikinis as a "backdrop" to their concert. I'm thinking: "Baylor? Really?"

To put it in context for those not familiar with Baylor, we are about 20 miles down the road from Abbott, Texas, where Willie Nelson grew up. [Willie actually attended Baylor for one semester and withdrew when he realized that the university wouldn't let him grow pot in his room. I'm kidding about the last part of that sentence, by the way.]. Anyway, Willie was going to play Baylor one time (long after he attended here) and the university wouldn't let him.

Several years later, though, the university DID let David Allen Coe play here. What?!?!?!? "No," Willie, but "Yes," David Allen Coe? I always explained that one to my students like this: "The faculty committee, when evaluating David Allen Coe as a potential performer, had never heard of him. But they HAD heard of Edgar Allen Poe. Hmmmm . . . "Edgar Allen Poe?" "David Allen Coe?" Must be OK . . .
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  #27  
Old 12-21-2017, 04:42 PM
mmcs1202 mmcs1202 is offline
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Originally Posted by Reasley View Post
You're welcome!

I've been thinking of some Dan Fogelberg songs that would be great covers for you. If we could rewrite "Another Auld Lang Syne" from the female perspective, that would be a good one, but I can't figure out a substitute so the guy is not "spilling his purse," LOL.

"Longer" would, of course, be great for you, too. But some think that it has been overplayed. My question: how can absolute greatness ever be overplayed?
I've thought of adding "Auld Lang Syne" to my song list, at times- No great reason I haven't, other than the challenge of coming up with a guitar part I'd be happy with (i.e. emulates the piano part fairly closely).
Years ago, I tended to avoid some songs because of the gender factor (in the lyrics), but hearing covers like "There She Goes" by Sixpence None The Richer made me decide it's really not so necessary to be gender-accurate when covering a song- although there is the occasional one I'd just feel silly singing in public, like "Creep" by Stone Temple Pilots ("I'm half the man I used to be...").
I also have a great reverence for the songwriters who crafted the songs I play (mosy of my attempts at songwriting have been futile), so I don't like altering their lyrics, even if just changing some "she's" to "he's".

I'll take a look at doing "Longer", also. I think I knew how to play it, at one time (as a teenager). I always appreciate suggestions from people, so thanks! 😊
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  #28  
Old 12-21-2017, 05:07 PM
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KevWind KevWind is online now
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I am sitting here listening to acoustic covers on YouTube after concluding yet another semester and just listened to noledog's (Eric) cover of John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High."

I LOVE IT.

Eric is very talented at guitar and his intro to this song is just great and I like the tempo of his cover of the song and the way he generally does it.

So, I looked over at the woman that I'm dating and said "This is a FANTASTIC cover" and she gave me a dirty look and said "No."

Note that she is a HUGE John Denver fan and, when she hears a John Denver cover, she wants "carbon copy" -- or as close as one can get.

And, I "get it."

I am a huge James Taylor fan (Hey, I am a male baby boomer guitarist so that goes without saying, right?) and I cringe when I hear someone STRUMMING straight chords to JT's songs. Nails on blackboard.

So, I ask those who have been gigging for quite some time: how do you balance the carbon copy/self-interpretation dichotomy or do you just do what you want to do and figure that the audience is never going to like your music 100% song-by-song but the more important thing is to "do well" in total?

Noledog's version of John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High:"

https://youtu.be/d5DUI8eFjp0
Lots of interesting replies so far But I am still going to offer mine (and make it my own reply ) so to speak .......

First off : I don't view it as a dichotomy per se or as being one or the other per se. . Personally I don't think the goal should be to try to play it as an exact copy, or try to make it your own. I think the goal is to offer an honest rendition of the way the song makes you feel .

I think If you "try" to copy it exact, it will sound like you are trying to copy it ... And if you try to personalize it it will sound false and pretentious ..........either way it is the "trying" for either result that causes it to fail ... Where if the only thing you "try" to do is to play it the way it makes you personally feel, and let the results land where it will. It will usually have a good balance of being recognizable yet personal, and it is the honesty of emotion that most of the audience will connect with.
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  #29  
Old 12-21-2017, 06:24 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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Originally Posted by Reasley View Post
I am sitting here listening to acoustic covers on YouTube after concluding yet another semester and just listened to noledog's (Eric) cover of John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High."

I LOVE IT.

Eric is very talented at guitar and his intro to this song is just great and I like the tempo of his cover of the song and the way he generally does it.

So, I looked over at the woman that I'm dating and said "This is a FANTASTIC cover" and she gave me a dirty look and said "No."

Note that she is a HUGE John Denver fan and, when she hears a John Denver cover, she wants "carbon copy" -- or as close as one can get.

And, I "get it."

I am a huge James Taylor fan (Hey, I am a male baby boomer guitarist so that goes without saying, right?) and I cringe when I hear someone STRUMMING straight chords to JT's songs. Nails on blackboard.

So, I ask those who have been gigging for quite some time: how do you balance the carbon copy/self-interpretation dichotomy or do you just do what you want to do and figure that the audience is never going to like your music 100% song-by-song but the more important thing is to "do well" in total?

Noledog's version of John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High:"

https://youtu.be/d5DUI8eFjp0
There's copying and then there's covering. When I was coming up there was no such thing as covering. If you didn't copy the song (replicate it) then you simply did not play it and expect to be taken as a serious student of the guitar and the artists. The point of the whole thing was to give the songs their due and creative license was not an acceptable dodge, or excuse. You did your best to replicate the songs you set out to learn.

Your girlfriend's response to an original artist's cover by someone is the response you're going to get from an ardent fan dissatisfied with the cover's treatment of the song. It is what it is. I play JD's songs as he plays and sings them. Again, I was raised in a time when replication was the rule of the day.

Covering, watering down copying, relaxed the obsession of paying tribute to an original artist's works in the same audible renderings he or she gave them to us. I cringed when I came back to music in 2004 after a 30 year hiatus. The notion of covering was a ground swell supporting anyone who could cobble together the three chords necessary to poorly cover a song and, tethered at the hip of that whole new movement, political correctness cleared the path against champions of copying.

Somewhere in that time frame finger picking was re-coined as the high brow finger style; picking being possibly below the permissible verbiage of the haute of strings. Moreover, those championing the re-coining actually believe it was to re-frame a new concept of using fingers to pick (pluck) the strings. Right. Bluegrass to country to folk to rock to classical to blues to any manner of displacing strings with the fingers, it's all finger picking that does not need to be re-framed as anything more or less, or different. But, there it is: finger style.

I do my best to copy original works and I do it for me, not an audience. Some will counter that with the argument that it does nothing to display artistry of the player. I disagree. If you can copy an original work then artistry is what you've achieved. It's at that point when your skills set can pretty much render anything you wish to render. And, most people who can copy an original work have a pretty good repertoire of their own original artistry to give back. Rendering an original in variance to the way the artist gave it to us, and expecting it to be warmly embraced, is a leap of faith. It will receive lip service from some as a matter of recognition for trying, which I can see if comradeship is considered more important that the music itself, but then there's the ardent fan's ear expecting better efforts to respect the original artist's rendering.
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  #30  
Old 12-21-2017, 06:33 PM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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I just do what I do. The measure of it is ... do they ask me to do it again.
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